I think I actually like losing.

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I think I actually like losing.

Post  squalie on Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:41 pm

I'll start this by saying that for most of 7th edition, I played Beasts almost exclusively. I've always cheered for the underdog in life. I got into Daemons later in 7th as I've always loved the models but knew they were attached to a stigma. I tried to play friendly Daemon lists, but there wasn't really any such thing. I held my head high as I've always played Chaos in one form or another and knew I just wasn't jumping on the bandwagon.

With Beasts, they were, and still are, my absolute favorite army....must be my obsession with goats. Wink Anyways, when 8th came around, I screamed at the Heavens (GW) for screwing with "my" army. It felt so different that I simply dumped my Beasts out of spite and moved on to other armies. In 7th, I was usually the whipping boy for other armies and players as Beasts weren't really expected to win -- and they usually didn't, but I loved the uphill battle. I have come to realise that an army like that makes you really appreciate other aspects of the game. When you start a game and you're really not expected to win, it takes a lot of pressure off of the game and you can just have fun with it and make desicions that seem more risky as you're always looking for the hail mary. This became apparent after the last tourny...but I'll get to that. When I win a game, to me there always seems that moment where it's awkward and the other fellow is just packing his army and no one's really saying anything. When I lose, it usually doesn't bother me so there really isn't that competitive silence that follows most games. I'll be the first to admit I have had my moments of frustration where the game didn't even give me a fair shake and I took my toys and left the playground with a pout on, but for the most part I could care less whether I win or not. It was fun playing Beasts as usually you were the comedy relief and I enjoyed that.

Recently, I started collecting High Elves. For some reason they got under my skin, which is weird as I haven't played anything other than Chaos for 15 years. I took them to the recent tournament and found that I really miss playing Beasts. Here's why; I noticed something peculiar in my game vs. Natahn. A. I had bought into the hype that HE's were the stuff in 8th and that VC had taken such a hit that I went into the game with the foregone conclusion that I should win -- everything being equal. I brought a mild list and can't comment on Nathan's as I know very little about VC and it's not even the point. I will say that I felt his list was NOT abusive in any way. He pounded me into sand and I noticed that when I was playing the game I got very frustrated, which usually isn't the case. I realised that since I felt that I 'should' win, I was really disappointed that I didn't. This is nothing against Nathan at all as we always have good games and I enjoy playing them/him. The irony is that if I had played Beastmen, and was expected to lose, that I certainly wouldn't be disappointed if I did. And that because of this we probably both would have had even more fun. Make sense?

I really enjoyed High Elves, but they felt kind of 'wrong'. My game against Paul, I won, but shouldn't have as he was knocking my dilly into dirt. Against Dom, his Ogres gave me the beating of a lifetime. It was a viscious, viscious one-sided knocking that proved that I may be playing the wrong army.

I guess I mean it like this; If I win all the time with a certain army, then no one has fun as I actually feel bad for winning and the other fellow certainly didn't like to lose. If I lose, then *I* feel stung as I should have won, and I don't like that feeling either as it doesn't feel like me.

If I use a crap army and win, then I feel elated as I 'pulled one off' and the other fellow knows deep down that 8 times out of 10 that wouldn't happen. If I lose, well ain't no thang' as I was sure to lose anyways and we're both chattering away as he has a win and we both still played a fun game.

Am I off on this one?

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Re: I think I actually like losing.

Post  nathanr on Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:11 pm

I think that you are right when you say that you had more fun when you played with an army where you were always looking for the 'hail mary' play. That is one of the best parts of Warhammer for me, that all or nothing move that can swing the game if you can pull it off but usually doesn't work. I had several of these opportunities against Dominique in the last tournament which would have turned his massacre into a draw. If I had pulled it off it would have been high-fives all around because it would have been awesome, even for Dominique because it had such a slim chance of succeeding that he wouldn't have been able to not be impressed.

I enjoy winning too though, even massacres can be enjoyable. I'm not going to lie, I enjoyed beating Eric's tomb kings at the tournament. I think mostly because of the many times I've been the one getting massacred by him. My games against him are always hard-fought but enjoyable.

In answer to your question though, I think you are just not a competitive enough guy to play a winning army list. I've enjoyed both games I've played against you but I think I enjoyed playing your beastman army more than your daemons for the reasons you put in your post. That said, I do want a re-match against your daemons with my bretonnians sometime.

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Re: I think I actually like losing.

Post  squalie on Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:19 pm

Ya, I like the Daemons even more now as I can put them on the table and not have to hear broken army comments anymore.

I may have some painted HE for sale. Wink

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Re: I think I actually like losing.

Post  ScottRadom on Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:04 pm

Well there was a time that I expected to win every time I played a game. I did pretty good back in the day! And losing was always a suprise to me, like it was something that happened to other people. It was one of those things that was super funny, until it happened to you. Like rape.

But as I got rusty and out of practice and I started to lose more I certainly seemed to have at least as much fun. I think the monkey you put on your back with the expectation to win (as I did) made the result of the game factor into the enjoyment of the game. I rarely had as much fun if I lost as when I won. It was pretty nice to play the game and be able to enjoy a loss as much as a win. So long as the game is played well by both sides.

Winning is still better I think.

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Re: I think I actually like losing.

Post  squalie on Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:17 pm

Well, there is no doubt people think of you differently when you win all the time.

Scott, congrats on the magazine cover!

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Re: I think I actually like losing.

Post  ScottRadom on Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:47 pm

Hey, thanks man! How did you find that out?

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Re: I think I actually like losing.

Post  squalie on Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:03 pm

I subscribe and it came in the 'e' mail today. I really have thought about putting some stuff on wamp and climbing the long hill of criticism to get better and stop dry-brushing. Very Happy Not to be corny, but I'm glad your hard work is paying off.

I watched Miniature Mentor video by Aurent Esposito Mas the other day and it really got me inspired. It really did show me how much patience I don't have. It also showed me that I do everything backwards.


Last edited by squalie on Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: I think I actually like losing.

Post  ScottRadom on Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:51 pm

That MM one is good. Also I like the Giant one by Alan Carasco (I think). The Laurent Exposito Mas is a great one. That's the closest thing to a bible I can think of when it comes to painting. Most everyone else I take a little bit of this and leave a bit of that but I like his tyle the most.

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Re: I think I actually like losing.

Post  Carson on Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:50 pm

I think its a sign of getting older. I know my game play has changed dramaticly over the last little while. I really don't put as much emphasis on winning now as I used to. For me its all about the "story" of the game and the fun factor for both sides. I'll do stupid things game wise just because its in character and I want to see what will happen.

That being said I still try to be competitve and build good lists.

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Re: I think I actually like losing.

Post  squalie on Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:10 am

I don't want to make it sound like I will throw a game, but I will make a charge that's probably stupid just to see a cool combat -- as that's what a BloodThirster would do, for example. I will always accept challenges, as that what Daemons would do. I can't ever recall actually moving a unit backwards until I played High elves. It was a weird feeling. Very Happy

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Re: I think I actually like losing.

Post  Duke Kristian on Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:34 am

Very interesting topic...

I played for many years and for a long while it was s truggle to win a game. There was always a Vampire Lord or Slann there to slash through my Knights with ease. However, not to be overly modest, I became very dominate and there was many a tourney where I would be one of the few to best all my foes. It got to be that Scott, Carson and I were always matched up against each other at tourneys, which always disappointed us if only b/c here we have driven for hours and have to face each other on the battlefield. But we really believed in balanced armies with lots of core units and I like to think we were very sound tatically. Anyway as with Scott and Carson I began trying new things. Scott began playing Ogers alot, Carson experimented with other than his Nasty Dark Elves and I put together a Doombull led Beastmen army....it was alot of fun and I did not stop playing WHFB b/c of the competition or the armies, life just got in the way. But like you have experienced and Carson states, it became more interesting to have theme armies and play almost like the underdog. Buy like Scott it said it is fun to win. However, if I think about it,playing these underdog armies may be similar to when we thought long and hard about making sure our armies were largely core based....a struggle for victory but more satisfying and alot of fun to play...

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