Opinions please.

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Opinions please.

Post  squalie on Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:19 pm

I want to start of by saying that I have always hated proxies. I understand that this hobby can get expensive, but to play the game there is an investment that must be met (In my opinion). I go to great lengths to get the exact models I need to play the EXACT army I want. I read about people using Beastmen figs to play Warriors, or whatever and it just chaffs my ass. My buddy tried to put a tinfoil apron on an Ogre Bull to make him into a Butcher and our group almost had a collective heart attack. I personally feel that there must be a reasonable effort into the model you're putting on the table if you're not using the actual fig. And I had better not have to ask 10 times what the hell it is. If you're really into "counts as", why not just buy one army and 15 army books and you're done?

Having said that, I've wanted to give each Daemon army I have a certain specific identity. For my Knhorne army I want to use squigs with wings attached as Furies as I thought the big teeth look was appropriate for the army. For Slaanesh, I am taking 40k Gargoyles and putting Daemonette heads and arms on them to make them look like Slaanesh Furies -- and there would be no mistaking what they are on the table. Now, for Tzeentch, I was going to use 40k Spore Mines for Furies. I thought they looked very appropriate and Tzeentchy.

Here's where my question comes in:

I have about 100 Spore Mines coming through different trades (please don't ask, just find me a different hobby) and I thought 'why not use these as Horrors for the Tzeentch army?'. 10 of them are $20.00 on the GW website, so it's not much of a value thing, although they are cheaper than the real Horrors. I just thought that they would look cool having a table covered in RnF Spore Mines and there would be no mistaking what the are.

How do you, as Collectors/Gamers/Purists, feel about this? Am I a hypocrite? Is there a grey area in proxies? Are you all going to bitch about this as I'm doing it anyways? Laughing

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Re: Opinions please.

Post  Mhael on Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:21 pm

If you have modeled something as a replacement and put in a necessary amount of effort into crafting it (just to get rid of the tinfoil issue) I see no problem as long as; one your models will not be confused with what they would be if you were to play against that army and two they had a uniform feel/look about them.

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Re: Opinions please.

Post  TheWade on Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:16 pm

Dude, you are overthinking your hobby by a magnitude of about 1000.

As long as those spore mines are just horrors then go for it! If you have to point at one group and say those are horrors, and those red spore mines are flamers, and those purple ones are furies...okay, maybe...but come on, give yourself a break.

This hobby is about having fun. If creative use of models is fun for you then anyone who criticizes you for it should be punched in the face. It's also about the amount of effort a person is putting in. Taking a broken carnosaur out of your pocket and plunnking it on the table, or dressing your tyrant up in some tinfoil implies laziness and a disrespect for your opponent...coming up with a creative use of different models is the polar opposite.

Relax and have some fun.

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Re: Opinions please.

Post  squalie on Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:45 pm

Well I feel better then. See what happens when you're on Warseer too much?!

Please disregard thread...

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Re: Opinions please.

Post  ScottRadom on Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:51 pm

Bullshit!

I ain't playing any goddamn spore mine army! That is lame as hell. Probably the lamest thing ever. My biggest problems with counts as and proxies are when they look like shit, and 100 spore mines will look like shit. If there was some way to make it look cool and excite my imagination I'd be with you, but till then, they'd look like spore mines you were playing with 'cause you got them cheap.

Wade is right about one thing, this hobby IS about fun. Spore mines as horrors is not fun. Or cool. If you're putting work into them then fine, but it sounds like you don't wanna. If I play this goofy cheap looking army it will be interfering with my fun.

As for finding creative uses of models, this doesn't sound creative but rather cheap instead.

DON'T do it Don, don't be that guy! If it means I have to GIVE you the horrors than so be it. But don't let me see this army on the table please. Please?

You're WAY better than that Don! Don't be THAT guy amigo.

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Re: Opinions please.

Post  Carson on Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:59 pm

This reminds me of that debate we had in Calgary following Kusters tournament. There was a player there who proxied an entire Hobgoblin army as a DarkElf army. I thought it was bullshit and shouldn't of been allowed but I ended up taking heat because of my army that I was using.......my undead brettonian army.

Not even close in to the same thing in my opinion but there it is anyway.

I'm not even sure what spore mines look like, but, I woould say that they REALLY need to look close to the real thing to use them. Otherwise they'll end up looking like just a bunch of spore mines on the table.

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Re: Opinions please.

Post  squalie on Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:31 pm

Well, I figured I'd get both sides of the fence...and I sure did.

Scott, I laughed out loud when I read your post. Christ man, even your pm's scare the shit outta' me. Seriously though, I know what you're saying as the reason I posted was that I thought it might be pushing it.
I really do think it would look cool, but you did beg after all. I still think I might try it out in secret.

Carson, I remember that guy. The thing with him was that he would have to describe every unit, almost EVERY turn. I think you're Brett's looked good, as each unit represented itself well.

These are Spore Mines:

http://www.mymodelcase.com/project_images/get/387.jpg

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020012&prodId=prod240003a

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Re: Opinions please.

Post  GobbladasSquig on Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:21 pm

We actually had this one guy from pretty close to where I live who used old spore mines as horror blocks in big amounts. He made one big green stuff eye for each and the units really looked like shit. I mean, it was distinct and not too far fetched to be seen as horrors, but the unit didn't look good at all. Really static, not impressive stuff. But we did of course accept them as counts as minis for our tournaments. It's just not something I'd do myself.

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Re: Opinions please.

Post  squalie on Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:25 pm

Damn, I thought all my ideas were good ideas.... Neutral

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Re: Opinions please.

Post  ScottRadom on Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:02 pm

Meh, you wanted opinions and I obliged. I don't mind writing that stuff as I am lucky enough to know you for reals so you know I am not just trying to flame you or nuthin'. If we each had a drink in our hand and were in a bar, I would have said the same thing only louder with more vulgarity.

I remember Wade lamenting the army from a tourny that was made of all Samurai figs. I wonder if he was just having fun too?

Bottom line for me is when I play warhammer, I like to play warhammer. I love the fluff as presented so I am a bit of a purist in that regard. I like my figs to look like the artwork from the books. Most of the time. Stupid models aside, I don't buy the spore mine idea. As Gobbladasquig has first hand witnessed, it looks weak.

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Re: Opinions please.

Post  squalie on Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:40 pm

Meh, you wanted opinions and I obliged. I don't mind writing that stuff as I am lucky enough to know you for reals so you know I am not just trying to flame you or nuthin'. If we each had a drink in our hand and were in a bar, I would have said the same thing only louder with more vulgarity.

Don't sweat it, brother. I know exactly where you're coming from and I know you well enough to understand that you're just watching a buddy make a shit decision and it's like in all the movies where they yell "Nooooooooooo" ,in slow motion. I can picture you in the middle of the street, on your knees in the rain with your arms raised, screaming at the sky! Smile

If we each had a drink in our hand and were in a bar, I would have said the same thing only louder with more vulgarity.
That is most certainly true. Very Happy

Crap. You know, I really thought this might be a neat idea. Scott, what the hell am I going to do with 80 Spore Mines!!!! scratch

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Re: Opinions please.

Post  TheWade on Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:51 pm

Just say that they're Dark Elves. Works for other people.

Stupid pre-painted, perfect soft score getting, cheater Samurai High Elf army.

Blah.

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Re: Opinions please.

Post  TheWade on Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:51 pm

So Scott, what about when the book doesn't have a picture, and GW doesn't make a model for the unit...maybe we can use spore mines for those?

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Re: Opinions please.

Post  Ironwoulf on Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:33 pm

Go with the spore mine project, use you imagination and creativity. For those people easily confused by something new make up some lables that you put down next to the unit. I have started doing this with my WoC army to keep strait which units have what marks - removes confusion and reminds me of what I have.

Tournaments should be at a higher standard than other games. keep the proxies reasonable and self explainitory. DE as goblins makes no sense.

I play the game for fun, my expectations are low as long as there is no ambiguity or confusion as to what unit is what. If I am not up to another persons standards then I won't play, or we can go outside and I can do 3D6 points of fucking damage to your face, no proxies. Its a fucking game, relax a bit.

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Re: Opinions please.

Post  Carson on Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:36 pm

I'm in for the 3d6 points of damage only if I can use a proxy.......say Stash! Very Happy

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