Friday night games

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Friday night games

Post  Kuyp on Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:40 pm

So for the league kick of on Friday night i managed to get in 3 games

The first against Andre, ended in a minor loss for me. this game was kinda slow and was more of a shooting match than anything and he managed to stop my chariots by putting a block of 25 warriors in my way and i nearly took his general and a group of 20 long beards turn 2 by an unexpected charge. he fled form my chariots in the magic phase (thus giving him a chance to get his warriors in place) and then i charged him with my hierophant (he could fly) and i only missed them by less than an inch.

The second against Eric, ended in a massacre for me. I'm not sure what to say about this game, i tried to move quick and by doing this i put my hierophant on a hill, genius! but his dice were all riddled with 0ne's and two's and like 40 some shots against my hierophant saw only one wound! the chariots just kinda swept across the board, he had one possible charge on my chariots rear but the failed a fear test said no. and the casket of souls took his rat Ogre's and jezzails. it really didn't help that in one of his shooting phase i ward saved like 8 wounds. Game's like this one are less than enjoyable for everyone and Eric said in all his war hammer history hes never had such bad rolling.

And the third against Andre again, and this one turned out a minor victory for me, in our second game he made a big mistake (IMO) and turned his only 2 big blocks of dwarfs around giving me a sweet rear flank charge and then i got stuck in a group of iron breakers for the remainder of the game. his shooting was stopped by a scorpion and my ability to just restore the wounds lost. his 2 dragon slayer's really helped him out, its too bad they got all shot up in the magic phase though, haha.

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Re: Friday night games

Post  RickyDMMontoya on Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:51 am

The dice gods hammered me on last night. In my first game, against Carson, everything just went a little bit wrong each time. For example, while I was flanked by a unit of 12 marauders, the combined shooting into combat of 2 Warlock Engineers, an enfilading Warpfire Thrower, Ratling Gun and Warp Lightning Cannon couldn't reduce them below 5 models. I was hanging on by my fingernails at every minute, and it was a great game.

The second game, I have never seen anything like it. If not killing marauders is impressive then not killing a single T3 W3 Liche Priest over 3 turns is ri-god-damn-diculous. S6 & 10 Warp Lightning Cannon hits, at least 15 S5 hits from Warp Lightning, Jezzails. If I wasn't rolling 1's to wound, then Dominique was rolling straight 4+'s for his ward saves. I banked on killing the Heirophant with the massive amount of overkill that I had devoted to the task and instead he shrugged off 2 turns worth of shooting and magic from my entire army like a light pattering of rain. Of course this left me horribly out of position and unprepared for the magic inspired chariot charge to the rear of my units. I could have reformed to face the chariots, but I really, really, really thought I had the Heirophant in the bag. If you would do me the pleasure, I would like a rematch sometime when I am not under the influence of a voodoo curse.

So this league is off to an ignoble start for me - a minor loss and a massacre on the third turn. Maybe I should go back to using no magic...

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Sunday afternoon games

Post  nathanr on Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:53 pm

I played both Andre and Dominique this afternoon and managed massacres against both. Andre's dwarf war machines seemed to have gained Eric's Skaven curse and did very little against me. He had banked pretty heavily on the shooting phase and without it I was able to charge with impunity wherever I wanted. Against Dominique I was even more lucky. He lined up a magical flank charge on 2 units of knights with his chariots. Luckily for me I failed my fear test with one and a panic test with the other and both fled out of his charge range, setting up a flank charge of my own! It was pretty much the best possible outcome for me! After that I was able to chase down the Hirophant with my pegasus knights and after that the game was pretty much mine. I also played my brother yesterday where I once again scored a massacre.

I'm a bit worried about my army, I've played 3 games against 3 different armies (Orcs & Goblins, Dwarfs & Tomb Kings) and I've got 3 massacres. I don't want to take an army that will roll over all competition as it isn't going to be much fun for me or my opponents. I enjoyed my games against both Andre and Dominique and hopefully they enjoyed the games as well but if I keep doing it I'm sure it will get old pretty quick. What should I do about this?

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Re: Friday night games

Post  Kuyp on Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:04 pm

Eric Id be more than happy to play a game again, hopefully your curse will be be lifted though!
ya nathan and my game didnt go over so well when 2 units of victory points, wait i mean knights
fled away unwillingly from my chariots it wasn't looking so good, and it looked even worse when i didnt
have an escape route for my flying hierophant, its hard when there's flyer's to both sides of you
and they have 360 line of sight. the game was fun, it wasn't fun to roll 12 on the scorpions Ld of 8
causing DEATH .....sigh

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Re: Friday night games

Post  RickyDMMontoya on Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:58 pm

nathanr wrote:I'm a bit worried about my army, I've played 3 games against 3 different armies (Orcs & Goblins, Dwarfs & Tomb Kings) and I've got 3 massacres. I don't want to take an army that will roll over all competition as it isn't going to be much fun for me or my opponents. I enjoyed my games against both Andre and Dominique and hopefully they enjoyed the games as well but if I keep doing it I'm sure it will get old pretty quick. What should I do about this?

3 Massacres is a pretty small sample size but unfortunately I think you may have hit upon one of the dreaded internet acronym lists of doom, the Bret Royal Air Force or 'RAF.'

Now, your Peg Knight units are pretty small, but backed up with your characters, you have a ridiculous amount of mobility that very few armies will be able to to effectively deal with. With your Wood Elves and now this, you seem to have a thing for skirmishing units, only this time they fly!

I am pretty sure I could have a decently fun game against what I saw today, but I won't know for sure until the dice hit the table. I am not sure if the regular list I am rocking this league has the tools to deal with 3 units of skirmishing flyers and 2 flying characters - I might have to tool up just to have a chance. That might be the case for a lot of players.

Play the list some more and see what your opponents think, if nothing else it will look great when everything is painted up.

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Re: Friday night games

Post  nathanr on Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:04 pm

Yah, I'll keep playing this army for this league but then I'll probably pack it away, I made it more for the painting and modelling experience than the game-play aspect anyway and if nothing else it has been a fun project.

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Re: Friday night games

Post  ScottRadom on Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:09 pm

Also Nathan you haven't played against armies that I think could smash you, summoning undead, demons, and dark elf monsters. I think those are some of the more powerful toruny armies, and Bret's have been forgotten?

Though to be honest, I have to ask why the fascination with Tomb King shooting Dominique? I love TK, and I know from experience that TK can run the board against Bret's. I'd seriously consider turning your archers into small blocks, DON'T leave you hierophant out on it's own and start magically smashing bret's with chariots. The only thing with more maneuvarability then flyers is the fast cav TK chariot units with a magical move/charge range of 24" assuming you can get off a single move chant (which should be doable). Man, I miss TK's!

Total side note, I got some FoW games in today and realized it was the first time in forever I played a game. Made me realize how much I missed it so I gotta get a decent warhammer army going to get back into the swing of things.

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Re: Friday night games

Post  Mhael on Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:25 am

It is true I had a heavy shooting army but I'm still trying to find the right combination for me I Had a grudge thrower, two bolt throwers, organ gun, flame cannon, cannon, ten thunderers, ten quareller rangers, sixeen hammerers, two blocks of 25 warriors with great weapons, two dragon slayer heros (come in handy for guarding war machines), and a master engineer general with the grudge thrower(plus rune of accuracy lets me reroll both artillery and scatter dice at my choosing each turn plus two runes of penetrating make it strength six hits). I would play this list against nathan again but probably deploy differently. I also made an alternate list against dominiques Aiel army(wood elves) with the same grudge thrower and only one bolt thrower but had 8 slayers roaming around 20 hammerers, 15 ironbreakers who woefully died against strength five attacks, 2 units of 25 warriors with great weapons and 1 unit of 25 warriors with hand weapon and sheild bsb with 5+ ward save against any missile magic or nonmagic fire to all units within 6". Thoughts?

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Re: Friday night games

Post  ScottRadom on Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:45 am

My favorite approach to a dwarf army is to include enough shooting to make the enemy close with you and die against your block of infantry. I think your first list is clearly meant to win or lose in your shooting phase, and I think putting all your eggs in one basket isn't great. I'd trim the shooting significantly and go for things like a gyrocopter - makes your entire army and esp. your shooting more effective as you get to march block key elements of the opposing army for at least a turn or two, and I'd trim the blocks of warriors to 20 a piece.

25 sounds great, but with that much shooting, or even 1/2 that amount, are you really worried about being outnumbered by the time he reaches combat?

Slayer characters. My opinion slayers of any sort are cool models to paint, great flavor, and the worst dwarfs ever shot out of mama dwarfs crotch. Guarding a 100 point warmachine with a 100 point slayer character (likely more) means that piece is now 10% of your available army. for 205 points you get a block of 20 warriors with full command. The block of infantry will most certainly make your battleplan more manageable, and will make your opponent think a lot more in his turn. The more you make your opponent think, the bigger chance of a mistake I like to think.

I would rather take combat characters and especially a battle standard bearere then slayers for sure. But that is just me, and I have long been out of the hardcore loop of things.

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Re: Friday night games

Post  nathanr on Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:27 am

My ideal dwarf army has 2-4 bolt throwers (by far the most effective dwarf war machine in my opinion), 1-2 organ guns (best for skirmishers, fliers & war machine hunters) and 2 units of 10-12 thunderers (by far the best missile troops in the army). Put the rest of your points into rock-hard infantry, and always give your warriors shields (even if they have great weapons) so you always have the choice to turtle. for special infantry I prefer hammerers to ironbreakers due to their stubbornness and immunity to fear and terror (when led by a lord) but I think I am in the minority there.

With an organ gun in with your war machine group your enemy will have to think twice about sending in their fast cavalry or fliers since one good shot can wipe them out completely. Way more cost-effective than a slayer character in my opinion. A unit of thunderers with the war machines can also be a major detriment to any typical war-machine hunters since they are deadly at range and pretty decent in hand to hand as well, especially if equipped with shields. Again, way more effective than a slayer character as they are multi-purpose. It is too bad that slayers aren't as useful as they seem to be, they are cool models and they have good rules but they just aren't worth taking most of the time. If they could skirmish and scout they might be more useful but unfortunately that isn't going to happen and most of the time you see them get out-manouvered and ignored or shot to pieces.

As for my army, I think that you are right Scott, my army is very manouverable and quite hard-hitting but it is also very fragile (in a 2+ armour save kind of way). None of my units can take casualties and still be combat-effective. I need to win on the charge or else I am in big trouble and against fear and terror causers I am in even more trouble since I can't afford to fail a charge due to fear. My characters are also quite fragile on their own, especially their pegasus mounts. I also have only 2 dispel dice so any army with a respectable amount of power dice is going to hurt me.

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Re: Friday night games

Post  Kuyp on Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:51 pm

Though to be honest, I have to ask why the fascination with Tomb King shooting Dominique?

Well its not so much as the shooting, the only shooting i like is the SSC. I fell the need to take some rank and file skeletons, i used to take 3 groups of 10 with light armour. now correct me if i'm wrong but you know how the skeleton warriors can switch out there bows for shields at no extra cost, does this mean that they can shoot and then use there shields in combat giving them a 4+ AS?(hand weapon, light armour, shield) is so then that's the only reason i started taking the bigger blocks. it makes them less useless IMO. i think id like to try and switch out some thing in favor of 4 more chariots and another tomb prince giving me 2 units that i can double magic up from my high priest. chariots are truly amazing but i haven't seen them do as much as they did when i played against Andre's ogres. suddenly running into things that have armour isn't very fun. i fell that in my game with Nathan it would have been very different if he hadn't unintentionally ran, TWICE! and my SSC Misfiring turn 1 and not doing anything the rest of the game. oh well its all fun and a learning experience

as far as protecting my hirophant goes i think they need to have the option to mount the dam things on scorpions, id love it!! in my game with Nathan i forgot to use my hieratic jar (lets him cast an extra spell) that would have easily gotten him to safety.

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Re: Friday night games

Post  ScottRadom on Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:24 pm

Switching your shields for bows is just that, they leave the shield at home and take the bow and arrows instead. no 4+ save in combat. I think it's zero save, do they get light armor?

The hierophant needs to stay in a unit until a point where it's absolutely safe to pull him out, the game needs him to be somewhere for magic support, or both. Instead of the 4+ ward save I like the cloak of dunes for running around the joint. It seems a lot easier to get him to where he needs to be, or get him out of trouble if I made a mistake.

2 units of chariots are nice. I never did it as I hated painting chariots myself. Hmm... maybe it's time to whip out ye olde drybrushing tech and put together a TK army again.

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