Most hated armies

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Most hated armies

Post  ScottRadom on Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:23 am

Hey, in the interest of getting a little chatter going I thought I'd put a question out to the forum. Which army do you most hate/fear playing against? I know it's a broad question but what I am asking is what army causes you the most frustration across the board. I know there are certain army lists that can really wreck someones day but I mean which army, without being an extreme example of that army (Like an all tzeentch zapping list, empire gunline, High Elf zappy etc.) do you have difficulties against.

My vote is easy. Bretonians! An army just thrown together with core knights and a few magic items always ruins my day. The knights hit so hard! Against my armies which are almost always infantry the problem is even if you break them it's alway unlikely that you'll destroy them in pursuit. Ugh.

And then there's the stupid ward save. I won't rant about points cost vs. the blessing of the lady. I don't think Bret's are really underpointed to badly (if at all) but the ward save pisses me off because every Bret player acts like the 6+ or 5+ save is an automatic save! There are 4 or 5 other sides on the dice! Please any Bret players reading this have the basic human decency to act surprised when you make 5 out of 6 ward saves. That's all I need here! This happens all the time to me, "Alright you scored 6 strength 8 wounds on my Knights errant champion so I'll roll my ward save on a 5+.... Here goes.... Dammit! I only saved 5 of those wounds so I geuss you killed my 30 point champion with your 550 point Black Orc Lord on a Wyvern. So since my horse wounded your Black Orc lord I geuss the challenge is a draw. C'mon, why did I have to fail that ward save! Has the Lady forsaken me!".

And that's why I hate Bretonians.

Peasant models are the bomb though.

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  nathanr on Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:16 pm

I feel your pain Scott, my brother plays an optimised all-knight brettonian army that he has refined and perfected over the years. I'm pretty sure if you were to mathematically define the perfect Brettonian army list you would get his.

I don't hate playing against him though, in fact I consider it a challenge. Especially with dwarfs, like you said, even if I do break him in combat I can't catch him. Then the broken unit rallys and I have to withstand yet another knightly charge!

I did catch him off guard the last time we played though. We played a 4000 point all-special characters game. He put in 3 units of Grail knights (because he could) and I had the High King Thorgrim Grudgebearer and Thorek manning the Anvil. I'd never used the anvil since the new dwarf rules came out and he didn't know about the free movement rune! Those 3 great weapon charges on my second turn righted many long-running grudges my dwarfs had against the fancy-pants knights. Thorgrim and his ironbreakers also held against a charge from 3 units of grail knights led by the fay enchantress and the green knight. All in all it was a glorious victory for the dwarfs! After that victory my brother went out and bought the Orcs and Goblins army book! Looks like there will be a highly efficient WAAAAAGH in the near future (he might even cut out a few of the A's).

The armies I hate to play are the ones I know nothing about. I don't like having to depend on my opponent to tell me how their army works.

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  Carson on Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:08 pm

Thats easy for me as we'll......Bretonnian. Again I would have to agree that it is the ward saves that every Bret player seems to make with ease. You can play a great game against that army and have nothing to show for it. Anyone hear of flank charging a lance formation with a ranked unit of greatswords...and loosing.

I don't think that I have ever played against a Bret army that didn't make a disproportional amount of ward saves. Take the ward saves away from the army and I think itt would still be a very good army. One of the only army's that could go with zero magic (spells or items) and still be very good.

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  nathanr on Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm

They are also one of the most manouverable armies in the game, especially when they have multiple units of pegasus knights (best flying unit in the game).

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  Jonny on Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:41 pm

While I havn't played any armies in the 7th edition, I've always hated, hated, hated playing against dwarves with my High Elves. They had excellent firepower, and then, once in combat, had better staying power most of the time. But I'm not sure how they are in the newest edition, and how they'd stack up against ASF. Any folks know?

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:46 pm

ASF doesn't affect the Dwarves at all! Elves have a min charge range of 10" vs the max 6" of Dwarf units. Even a Dwarf Lord at IN 4 strikes after RnF Elf infantry. It's just business as usual for the dwarf player. Blast the elf, bounce their crappy spears off your mighty gromril armor, then chop the elf. Go home, get drunk. Same old same old...

I am trying to piece together a dwarf army (again!), and I look forward to playing your elves in 7th edition.

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  squalie on Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:16 pm

Dwarfs, by far. A buddy of mine plays Dwarfs, and if I had a nickel for everytime I have said " Dwarfs do THAT too?!", I wouldn't have to work for a living. I play Beastmen, but DWARFS have Scouts?! AND Miners? Who, by the way, carry a banner, steam drill, charges,etc (so they can sneak up on you Rolling Eyes ) WHILE TUNNELING! Can't be march blocked, but in turn, march block YOU, so they effectively move FASTER than Elves? Thunderers have better BS than Elfs? Essentially, can carry more points in magical items per character. Ooops, sorry, I meant to say RUNES, because they are different (?) Even against a regular Dwarf army that isn't built to be anti-magic, it's tough to get spells off. I actually don't mind the gun-line, because THAT'S WHAT DWARFS DO. They are SUPPOSED to have Cannons, Bolt Throwers (better BS than DE's?), and other War machines. I just get tired of seeing the Anvil every damn game. Bang-a-gong, and my units don't move, disappear, or Miners (I guess I couldn't hear that Steam drill?) charge into my flank. Are baby Dwarfs born with Gromril armour? Just asking.

At all costs I will go after the Organ Gun. That machine tears me a new @-hole all the time. I play against Dwarfs, Wood Elves and Dark Elves all the time. Gotta' little experience against shooting armies. There is no magical formula, but I just give them more units than they can shoot and it works out pretty good.

ScottRadom: I have a pretty good record against Dwarfs, so it'd be nice to set up a game sometime-- just for craps and giggles.

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:41 pm

High Elves challenging dwarfs! That's a challenge! My dwarf record vs HE is throught the roof!

-I never use an anvil of doom. Overcost and easy to kill!

-All dwarfs are born at LD9 and with a 4+save boosted to a 2+ in hand to hand combat. Rekognize!

-My formula for a dwarf list is about 25% on shooting/war machines, 50% rank and file infantry, the other 25% characters and gimmicks (Gyrocopters, slayers). This gives me enough shooting to "convince" my opponent he needs to charge me and more than enough LD9 and Gromril to get it done in HtH

-I think Miners are terrible. I laugh at people who take them! Not to their face, but the minute their back is turned i give them the "Get a load of this guy!" action. Miners are way, way too expensive and only effective against maybe 1/4 of the army lists you're likely to face. As a high elf player, what business do you have even keeping units in your deployment zone? Use your long faggy legs to run at the bad guys and stab them to death! ASF doesn't mean you can't charge. Would you rather spend 180ish points on a small unit of miners or on 16 thunderers?

-Sure dwarfs have scouts but they DO NOT move without penalty through difficult terrain. That means if you deploy out of LOS in terrain you get to move a thunderous 1 1/2" a turn which is great for those 15 turn games.

Man, I gots to get painting my Dwarfs. All this getting challenged by High elves is making me thirsty for beer drunk out of a goblin skull. I'm off to find a goblin (Or one of my retard staff!).

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  squalie on Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:52 pm

I can't get offended by anything you wrote, and your record against High Elves won't be of any use. If you carefully read my post....I play Beastmen. Wink I certainly don't expect you to be terrified, but the great thing about Beastmen is I'm not expected to win. So if I do -- you never live it down Razz Seriously though, it would be great to set up a weekend to play a few games and meet some new people. Pizza is on me.

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  ScottRadom on Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:58 am

Damn, Why did I think you were rockin' the high elves?

I'm always off Sunday, so if you like I know I can play late night saturday, sleep, and get some more on a sunday. Wife and kids permiting. I can BBQ like a mo-fo to so maybe with those parameters you should find some weekend that works best for you. The Den (the local store) is open saturay's till about 6, and I'm back to home at about 7pm or so. I've got space for four 4x8 tables in my garage, And the beer fridge is always full. Let us know and I'll put something together.

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  nathanr on Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:47 pm

I like BBQ's and/or Pizza... I could even bring some Bretonnians since everyone loves them so much! Or how about some dwarfs, I'm pretty sure I have an anvil kicking around here someplace...

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  ScottRadom on Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:00 pm

Okay so this is starting to sound like a plan. We need a date and a time frame. Middle of july there is a mega battle at the Den I have committed to run, this could work for the last Saturday/Sunday in July maybe? In fact the wife is shuffling off with the kids some weekend around then. Then I can really get at 'er... I will try and coordinate that. ALso Rock Band will have to be enjoyed by all!

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  squalie on Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:20 pm

Well, it looks like we're going to get along just fine. Very Happy There will be 3 of us from Moose Jaw, representing Dwarfs, Dark Elves and Beastmen. I'll talk to the lads and see what works best for all. If I'm inferring correctly, would that mean we come on a Sat night, plat til we drop and play all Sunday also? That's definately do-able. We could get a hotel room to sleep the beer off, push down some bacon and eggs, and then get to throwing dice! This wouldn't be alien to us as we (all 3 of us) used to own the Paintball business in town and would do the exact same thing for tournaments there. We thought Warhammer might be easier as they don't allow Whiskey on a paintball field. Rolling Eyes

Sooo, let's try to narrow down some dates/times.
July 5:?
July 13th: Mega Battle (I'm going to try and make it)
July 19: Would be PERFECT for me.
July 26:? (daughter domes back from Europe, business trip to Nashville that week, could be tricky)
Aug 2:?

p.s.- We're no strangers to Rock Band either...

nathanr: Bring the Bret's as I haven't played against Bretonnians in years. It'd be great to have a varied list of armies there.

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  ScottRadom on Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:42 pm

I will coordinate it for july 19th. I just got to run it by the old high command first. Shouldn't be a problem as I'm sending her to candle lake for a couple of days that week.

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  squalie on Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:36 pm

I'll start cracking the whip on this end. I talked to the guys tonight and it shouldn't be a problem. So, we have room for 8? I'm just going by your "4 tables in the garage" comment. We can bring a table, refreshments and containers of terrain.

2500 point games? You guys call it. Honestly makes no difference to us.

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  nathanr on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:19 pm

I probably wouldn't be able to do both days, but I might stop in for a game or two on one of those days. I can bring Dwarfs, Wood Elves or I can borrow my brother's bretonnians if you guys really want to play against the hated knights. It will be a really cheesy list though!

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  Lord_Stash on Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:21 am

Skaven...
No other army breaks the convention of what you get for X amount of points...and then some things dont make sense: The warp lighting cannon counts as a chariot, but it can always march cause the skaven slaves are magically made stronger (str2 to str3) so they are strong enough to push it at the march all of the time. Of cource chaos steeds with str4 cant march their chariot...

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  nathanr on Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:16 am

I also hate that plague spell. I don't think I've ever lost as many dwarfs in a single turn as I have to that spell. Who knew I could fail that many toughness tests!

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:40 pm

Well a few things have come up.

First I will have to move the mega battle from the 13th to the 20th. This fits in just fine with our scheduled day of activities. I am tempted to scrap the mega battle in favor of a less formatted day of gaming at my place though. Any thoughts on this? Would you guys rather partake in a bigger mega battle or few one on one type games? It doesn't matter to me.

Any Saskatoon thoughts on this?

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  nathanr on Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:33 pm

It doesn't really matter to me but the random day of gaming might be better since people can show up whenever and still be able to play. With the mega-battle it is harder to add latecomers. Possibly a combination of both with the smaller games representing scouting forces or supply-train ambushes etc?

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  Lord_Stash on Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:39 pm

ScottRadom wrote:Well a few things have come up.

First I will have to move the mega battle from the 13th to the 20th. This fits in just fine with our scheduled day of activities. I am tempted to scrap the mega battle in favor of a less formatted day of gaming at my place though. Any thoughts on this? Would you guys rather partake in a bigger mega battle or few one on one type games? It doesn't matter to me.

Any Saskatoon thoughts on this?









Twisted Evil M E G A B A T T L E ! ! ! ! Twisted Evil

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  squalie on Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:23 pm

Definately, definately, definately weekend hang out with regular games............




................you have been warned. Twisted Evil

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  JoeMisfeldt on Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:41 pm

I;m not actually in Saskatoon in July so I will miss it, but I would vote for few smaller battles then one mega one.

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Re: Most hated armies

Post  squalie on Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:37 pm

We really should iron this out so people can make plans. You have 3 lads from Moose Jaw, with families, that need to get some Wife back-rubs in before we try to leave for a day or two. Laughing

Scott, should we start another thread with an appropriate title?

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game day

Post  Ironwoulf on Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:34 am

If you have room in the garage I would like to sign up. What about some 2 on 2 good vs evil or just gang bang the Bretts. I can bring both g and e.

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