Saskatoon Tournament?

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:23 pm

TheWade wrote:Wow, I actually really like that idea. I like the "did he have more of X than I did".

I like it for characters, but hate it for the other two.

The min core unit thingy. If I'm rockin' Orcs with 4 large core units and I take two min sized units of fast cav I gotta give the high elf with 2 10 man archer units full marks? Eat my nuts elf.

Wysiwyg. If your army is not wysiwyg then prepare to suck on more then a one point deduction from me. Remember when Rob from Moose Jaw screwed me over on his proxy units in Calgary? It didn't happen as it were but I think the proxy army stuff is out of control. If you proxy against me, get ready to have your score TANKED!

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  Carson on Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:25 pm

I actually hadn't decided what the questions would be when Eric posted....they will be along those lines though. Good point about the numbers though.

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  TheWade on Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:01 pm

So I guess what you're saying then is my converted Beastlord/Khorne lord mount can't count as a Herald on Juggernaut in your eyes?

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  TheWade on Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:03 pm

Or I guess Jeff from Kelowna can't bring his weird looking pre painted Samurai army he got perfect scores with in Vancouver? That's the most shameful example I can think of in the history of Warhammer.

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:15 pm

TheWade wrote:Or I guess Jeff from Kelowna can't bring his weird looking pre painted Samurai army he got perfect scores with in Vancouver? That's the most shameful example I can think of in the history of Warhammer.

I don't give a shit what you bring so long as it makes me think it's supposed to be what it is. Base size, all that shit are important.

The example I can think of was the all proxy army in Calgary, Hobgoblins for Dark Elves. Nice guy, but that's not cool in my book. Hobgoblins all of a sudden are firing repeater crossbows with BS4 is total BS.

My army will be WYSIWYG. Prepare to suffer if you're trying to tell me your base of snotlings is a giant.

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  TheWade on Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:21 pm

Ahh, okay. Extreme examples. Like the Samurai army. My model is pretty much obvious, and I use it to stand out versus the other Juggernauts. Sounds good, thanks Scott! Once again you are filled with wisdom beyond your years.

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  squalie on Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:51 pm

Remember when Rob from Moose Jaw screwed me over on his proxy units in Calgary? It didn't happen as it were but I think the proxy army stuff is out of control.

Didn't you bother poor Carson all the way home about this already? Not sure how this is an example as Rob didn't proxy. You were still reeling from the after-effects of the concert you put on.

Good concert by the way...

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:54 pm

squalie wrote:
Remember when Rob from Moose Jaw screwed me over on his proxy units in Calgary? It didn't happen as it were but I think the proxy army stuff is out of control.

Didn't you bother poor Carson all the way home about this already? Not sure how this is an example as Rob didn't proxy. You were still reeling from the after-effects of the concert you put on.

Good concert by the way...

I do what I can with what I got.

I know (Thanks to photo evidence) that Rob DIDN'T proxy, but my last round opponent did. I just can't stand in a tourny setting of a game that seems to get a new set of rules exceptions every 3-4 months with the new FAQ's and army books when people start telling me "This unit has spears and full command" after I've charged them. If you're unit has a banner, freakin' glue a piece of gum wrapper to a dude's head or somethin'.

Like I say, getting ready for some epic bad scores from me if people proxy.

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  squalie on Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:06 pm

I am currently painting the rest of my Minotaurs for the tourny (I have pics). If only half of the models have great weapons and the other have two hand weapons, but I want them ALL to have great weapons -- is that a problem? I remember Eric asking about it in Calgary, and I winced cuz I felt a little a shame that I didn't have ALL great weapon Mino's.

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:04 pm

Rules are at LEAST half the unit needs to be shown as using the weapon you've assigned to them. If I'm playing you and the two hand weapon guys sprout a great weapon...... TANKED!

Seriously. If I'm doing the math based on x amount of strength 4 attacks with my 4+ save in combat and then I find "No dawg, 'dems Great Weapon S6 attacks". I will smile, allow it to happen, then TANKED!

In tournies I don't want to spend any of my precious hung over grey matter having to re-process the information the eyeballs are giving my brain and run it through the proxy filter. At all.

This is my new stance on tourny proxies. If we're playing league time or whatever, proxy away! That's why I don't pay an entry fee for each individual game or expect some form of prize support.

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  squalie on Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:05 am

Well, then you'll just have to "tank" me later!! HA HAAAA, HA, heh heh, hmmm....nevermind.

I have about 9 of each, so maybe I'll just make units of GW and units XHW, even though I want ALL GW's !!

I'll figure it out by game day. And if I'm just as hung-over as you, doesn't that balance things out?

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  Carson on Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:58 am

Hey guys, starting to get excitied about this coming weekend....looks like it will be a sold out affair. I believe I can squeeze in one more table for 2 more players if anyone feels the bug. Its gonna be a nail biter this time around....all top notch players!

I believe we need an odd number so that I HAVE to play though Very Happy

Don where are those promised pics of your max-a-taurs?

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tourny entry

Post  Ironwoulf on Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:35 pm

Carson.. Has kendric entered/ if not put him down.

Bob

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  Carson on Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:07 pm

got em'

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  RickyDMMontoya on Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:00 pm

Can we get the static questions for comp? The ones you will actually be using? It would be nice to know which hoops to jump through ahead of time.

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  Carson on Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:18 pm

good idea Eric

COMP 0-5
1. do you have less points in characters than your opponent, if yes 1point
2. do you have more than the minimum core slots in your army, 1point
3. do you have 10% or less points in magic items, marks bloodline powers, etc, 1point

0-2 points subjective:

2points.....this is an incredible example of what this army should be, both fun to play and against. If I built an army for this book this is what it would be.

1point.....this is a fairly balanced list built with an opponent in mind.

0points....this army was built to win with no attention paid to an opponents enjoyment of the game.

SPORTS 0-5

all players should keep in mind these points when determining sportsmanship:

-proper movments
-dice rolling
-whining and bitching
-game mechanics
-speed of play....was he prepared and complete moves in a timely manner
-"cheating"....the randomn appearence of champions, characters, magic items, etc
-enthusiasim

APPEARENCE 0-5
-finished army?
-bases
-extra efforts put into conversions
-neatness
-base colored or time put into highlights and shading
-theme, unified color scheme
-WYSIWYG

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  RickyDMMontoya on Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:36 pm

3. do you have 10% or less points in magic items, marks bloodline powers, etc, 1point
Can we raise this, or make it not count Marks or something?

Warriors of Chaos will never be under 10%, with the Mark of Nurgle and Khorne ringing in at 30 points per unit...
We don't penalize Dwarfs for taking shields, so I don't think we should penalize Chaos for taking Marks. The Marks are Chaos.

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  Carson on Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:08 pm

I can live with that

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  Ironwoulf on Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:58 pm

COMP 0-5
1. do you have less points in characters than your opponent, if yes 1point
2. do you have more than the minimum core slots in your army, 1point
3. do you have 10% or less points in magic items, marks bloodline powers, etc, 1point

My opinion is that the Chaos marks be scored, they are an option . Just like Brettonian Virtues, Vampiric powers and Slann Disciplines, etc. Otherwise just score the items in the magic item list only.

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  RickyDMMontoya on Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:18 pm

But they're unit upgrades. You can't have a Khorne army without Khorne Knights and Khorne Marauders and Khorne Warriors.

The Magic items composition ding should be for Magic Items or their equivalents. Virtues are paid out of Magic Items limit, Vampires have a separate limit for Bloodline Powers, Daemons have Daemonic Gifts, these are all similar.

Marks are more like deciding whether to include a command group in the unit. They're an upgrade sure, but they're a common upgrade available to any unit in the army, and an integral part of what makes the army.

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  TheWade on Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:58 pm

Actually, I think the marks should stay in as points costs as well. They are definately an upgrade to the unit, just like magic items etc. You can definately make a Warriors of Chaos army without any marks, and taking marks is an "upgrade" to said army. I wouldn't count shields for Dwarfs, definately, but I would count every last rune. You can absolutely make a "Khorne" army, but by the new army book laws...in my humble opinion...you are now upgrading said army.

Just my humble attempt to even the tables a little, being as just by bringing Daemons I usually get tanked on scores like these no matter what.

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  RickyDMMontoya on Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:10 pm

I'd rather play a Chaos list with marks than one without.

Putting pressure on players to not bring them seems counterproductive in my opinion.

I can't imagine Chaos without Marks.

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  nathanr on Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:00 pm

I agree with TheWade. Marks are an upgrade but they are in the same category as magic items, gifts, bloodlines etc. You can choose to take them but then you have to take that into account when you choose your magic items. You have 200 points, spend them wisely. Or you can give up the point and take as many as you want.

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  ScottRadom on Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:27 pm

I agree with everyone not named Eric!

It's not that big a hit, and I do think it's a choice for chaos to play fully marked or not. but I am not playing chaos so I am not worried one way or another.

Why don't we try it out one way and keep tabs on it. It's a 4 point hit in the overall standings. Let's run it whatever way and see what impact, if any, it makes here locally.

Brilliant Radom! Keep it up!

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Re: Saskatoon Tournament?

Post  RickyDMMontoya on Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:28 pm

I agree with TheWade. Marks are an upgrade but they are in the same category as magic items, gifts, bloodlines etc.
1.) They aren't paid for out of a pool of points, they're just an upgrade, like buying shields. Pay Y for X, not A amount of points to be spent on B.
2.) Every unit except Warhounds, Trolls, Shaggoths, Hellcannons and Forsaken can take a Mark.
3.) The same mark can be taken by every unit in the army.

And this here is the big one:
4.) When a unit with a mark is deployed against me, I expect to know about it. It better be obvious, or I better be told. I don't expect to be told about magic items, Slann Disciplines, Bloodline Powers, Virtues or Daemonic Gifts.

I think they are quite different.

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