Altered Carbon

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Altered Carbon

Post  Kal on Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:22 pm

If you guys haven't watched this definitely recommend. One of the best shows i have watched in a long time. Even reading the books again.
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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  Carson on Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:01 pm

I agree, really good show.

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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:42 am

It’s good looking for sure but not really thought out at all. Worth watching but I can’t buy in completely.
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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  squalie on Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:11 am

You guys are even more generous than I am. I stopped after a couple episodes - the reasons are many.
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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:41 am

Demonizing the rich? Monetizing real space when humanity has the ability to live completely virtually? People falling in love with a specific body when clearly they’re regarded as disposable? Other than that I have a few real problems with it as well. I got on it after watching “Mute” and wanting more future stuff.
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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  nathanr on Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:37 am

I’m just making my way through The Office. Way easier to paint to.
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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  Kal on Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:49 pm

I think you guys are missing the point, i didnt think it was as much about the separation of the Grounders and the Meths so much as . Its addressing the dualism about what makes "us, us" is it our soul, is it our body. I think the term is metempsychsis which is like reincarnation. Are the backups of Bancroft still Bancroft or is it a whole new "person" if the “soul” isn't a physical thing so how do you measure it and can it be moved from physical thing to physical thing while retaining its "individuality". Honestly death scares the CRAP outta me so this show really draws me in, I mean my PLAN is to live forever but we’ll see how that pans out. Me and my coworker have been talking a lot about this show at work using our internal messaging system. So I’ma ramble for a bit. Feel free not to read.

I see the show as basic philosophy dressed up as a sci-fi detective story.  Dualism (body / mind are two seaparate things) is a notion that feels true to us, so true that it makes us think that there is such a thing as the soul, which of course gives rise to all kinds of beliefs about gods, the afterlife, reincarnation and ghosts etc.  That said, from reading the book (which came out in early 2000’s) the author kind of did also want to explore the inevitable rise of classism and, the separation of the elite from the masses, and the imbalance of power between them. But to be fair EVERY society and EVERY show has a class structure of some kind, rich / powerful ontop and poor masses on the bottom.  Some people are psychopathic and smart enough to work their way to the top on the pain of others. Either way there are tons of differences from the book to the show too like the little religious asian assassin doesn’t exist, Kovacs doesn’t have a sister, the black rebel leader doesn’t exist and there is no physical entity for Poe etc etc.

Neither of these ideas is new, so there is really nothing new about the story or the show at all.  What separates this entertainment from other binge worthy shows is the fact that it talks about true notions of humanity and explores many of the possible moral and ethical dilemmas that arise if the opportunity for dualism were to become true, particularly in a society that is stratified.  To me, this places it in a whole different class of show. If we were to go through and identify them all, I think there would be at least 30 different mindfucks presented to talk about.  The political arguments / classism is just the pretty icing on the cake.    

The fact that we, are talking about all this show, shows that it succeeds in this exploration of philosophy.  How much stuff do we watch actually expands your horizons or makes us think?  For me, this is all a show like this needs. Idk instead of "oh wasn't it cool when he kung fu kicked that guys head in" we are asking ourselves more questions not just oh if i was super rich and lived in the clouds what would i do with myself. Idk if i had a Stack and i could live "forever" how would that changed what mattered to me? would i get bored? Would i have a wife? Would i become paranoid about dying? You have so much more to lose imo. IF we are we, i mean does the AI in the show think the same about themselves and what makes them "them" as a human with a DHF? What is the difference between the AI and the Synth if you upload a human DHF into a Synth? Do they stop becoming human? In Altered Carbon humans get “stacked” at age one. So are we only human from birth to age 1? And everything else is just a computer? What happens if you Stacked someone with a mental deficiency? Is it the body that has the issue or the “soul / mind”? Idk so much to question.

Unfortunately, it might that the mind is a side effect of the body, just an evolutionary thing that aids in our reproduction as a species.  If it didn't feel like a separate “thing”, it wouldn't be as effective in its function.  I say unfortunately because we all want to believe that something more special is going on or that we are more important in the grand scheme of things, we're / it's not.   IDK that’s just my two cents, as I said I really got into this show and have thought / talked a lot about it.
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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:10 pm

No, I think you’re applying ideas to the show it isn’t covering. You’re ideas would be more interesting. There is ZERO debate in the shows reality about what makes a person a person. ZERO doubt that the little stacks are indeed the real person and their soul is contained and transported within. Not one conflict about that in the eight episodes I’ve seen.
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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:26 pm

Psychopathic and smart enough to work their way to the top in the pain of others? Jesus kid.
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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  Kal on Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:51 pm

I think they did address those ideas with the Liz Subplot and the Double Sleeving and Synth bodies no? But i could be mixing up the TV and Book now. Might already go rewatch this haha

Totally Psychopaths at top, always is. CEO's usually are psychopaths and they're on top. haha Plus Bancroft and the other Meths are TOTALLY psychos haha.
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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  Kal on Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:56 pm

I understand that the show is a detective story, and its all made up and none of it is "truth". But the story allows the plot to "maybe?" explore many ideas of personhood that are relevant to us here and now. I think i'm arguing the difference between the philosophy and the literal plot of the show and maybe thats my fault Razz

The literal show was fun tho and maybe i just thought to much into it Razz or wanted to make more of it then there was. Either way hope there is a Season 2
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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:57 pm

I’m going to hazard a guess that you don’t know many wealthy people.
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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:09 pm

I’m going to hazard a guess that you don’t know many wealthy people.
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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  Carson on Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:03 pm

I liked it cuz of the boobs......

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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:17 pm

You also liked the cocks. Be fair!
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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  squalie on Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:49 pm

Even the boobs weren't that great...
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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:02 pm

The cocks were ON POINT!!
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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  Kal on Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:06 pm

First off, Kristin Ortega's boobs were SO on point. If you didn't watch up to that part then you are sadly missing out.

and second didn't you only see one cock? Bancrofts?
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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:27 pm

On point!
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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  Carson on Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:56 pm

It was an attention grabber!

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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  Mhael on Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:10 am

I only watched episode 1 but didnt they addresd the whole what makes a person a person in Ted 2?
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Re: Altered Carbon

Post  squalie on Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:36 pm

Mhael wrote:I only watched episode 1 but didnt they addresd the whole what makes a person a person in Ted 2?

No spoilers!! Wink
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