League tournament resurgence

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Re: League tournament resurgence

Post  Carson on Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:29 pm

Ok, so a fun day of games and friendship yesterday. Even though the den is a shithole, it was a great day. Congrats to Dom for winning the day and to Nathan R. for garnering 2nd place and the players choice award.

I like to reflect on a tournament, to always strive for excellence. So, the best way to do this is by feedback. What were your likes and dislikes? Is there something you want added or missed?

A few questions I would like to pose to the group....

1. In a 3 game tournament, do you think a person should be able to loose a game and still win overall?
2. In a closed tournament, do we need to bring sporstmanship back
3. In a tournament, does army presentation (conversions, theme, build, painting) need to play a larger factor?

I have no preferences in these questions, they are simply to gauge the feelings of our group.

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Re: League tournament resurgence

Post  PeterW on Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:24 pm

I had a fun time as always and thank you Carson for organizing it! Saw a couple more new/returning faces showing interest in the game as well which is awesome. Congrats to Dom and Nathan R. for taking home the glory!

Answering Carson's questions:

1. For me this would depend on the other questions. If sportsmanship is incorporated and the presentation aspect to a higher degree then I would say for sure, someone should be able to win overall if they didn't win all three games due to high scores in these other areas. Otherwise I would say no, unless no other player has managed to win all three games. A loss is a loss, no matter how strong your victories were.

2. In a closed tournament I don't think we really have to but am not opposed to bringing sportsmanship back. I do think it is an important aspect of a tournament and while we don't need incentive to be courteous and prepared players for the sake of everyone's enjoyment sometimes remembering you get scored on it can be a nudge to make a player more conscious of their attitude and the like.

3. This one I have little preference for as long as presentation/fluff/theme/cool factor is incoporated in some way.

The only other comment I have is concerning time constraints. While I do acknowledge my own need to speed up and tighten my generalship to make the turns flow quicker I do think that dropping army lists to 4500 pts. may help even if only by a small amount. Or maybe I'm actually the slowest player in the league and just don't know it. pale I didn't really see how many turns everyone else's games went so not sure if this is just me haha.
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Re: League tournament resurgence

Post  squalie on Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:56 pm

I've been rethinking this point limit for armies. I was a really big proponent for 5000 points as my armies looked better on army builder and I like more stuff. Smile

I have to admit that at Andre's event there wasn't a single moment that it even crossed my mind that I wanted/needed 5000 points. Time is a factor, even in make up games at your house, and 4500 may just make things simpler and smoother?
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Re: League tournament resurgence

Post  Kuyp on Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:37 pm

Well for the first point , can a player lose a game and win best overall ? Ya sure best overall to me means a combination of games played, sport and painting. So strongly defining what our awards are can put to bed any kind of aruggements for who should win / why. I don't think this should be up to the players , just the organiser and how they want to run it.

I don't think sportsman ship is important unless we can come up with a clear yes or no tire or false statement setup or deciding sportsmanship

Again I think this is up to the TO to decide what kind of terms will decide the winner.


That said I had fun , I feel I had three good exciting well played games with no rules issues or messy situations to be had. We got through all the turns in the time frame given, and even if people hate hate hate valnerian and his buddies I still know the games could have gone very differently.

And finally all ways A pleasure taking money from suckers Very Happy ( a joke for any humorless people )
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Re: League tournament resurgence

Post  nathanr on Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:25 pm

I didnít have any trouble finishing all 3 games.

I enjoyed all of my games, first one was against Josh and his Empire army. It was a battle of buffs as my deep watch stood tall against his imperial guard. Eventually the kingsguard came in to help out and the men of the empire lost heart late in the game with about a 1000 point swing in the final turn to secure me the win.

Second game I played Peter and his warriors. Thanks to my fantastic dice roll for picking sides I was able to snag the perfect dwarf hill and set up my castle/army. Pete did everything right but his dice had other ideas. In the end it was a mostly intact dwarf army facing down a wizard and 6 dogs. I felt bad for Pete, the deck was stacked against him from the start and his dice did him no favours.

Last game was against Domís Blood knights and vampire lord with a smattering of other supporting undead units. His 11 horse-riding vampires mopped up 80% of my army. My kingsguard and dwarf lord did manage to grind their way through a unit of grave guard and a unit of skeletons with a necromancer and my shooting took down his big chariot shrine thing.

As for Carsonís questions:
1. Losing a game shouldnít count someone out entirely but it usually works out that the winner of the tournament wins all their games.

2. Sportsmanship isnít an issue in closed league tournaments. At least it wasnít in this one. Maybe I lucked out with my opponents but Josh was a great sport, Peter took his incredible run of bad dice rolls like a champ and Dom was a gentleman as his vampires ate my army for breakfast. If you want to spread the points around a bit more maybe make people vote for their favourite opponent at the end as well.

3. This is a tricky one especially with a small group. There are people like Carson or I who have been in this hobby for decades and there are people just starting out. Iím concerned that the same few people are going to keep winning these things and theyíll be like the Bob Gonda Sportsmanship award from back in the day. Maybe Iím wrong though, I was impressed with the new guysí armies and I think there were more deserving armies than my Dwarfs there yesterday.

The one thing I did miss was the rule quiz that Carson used to always insist on having.
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Re: League tournament resurgence

Post  Derek on Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:04 pm

I had a great time and I want to thank Carson for putting on the tourney.
I agree that Darren really should clean up his store, it is looking really run down and cluttered, reminds me of the old comic book stores on 20th street I used to go to years ago.

As for the tourney itself I luved it, I luv all tourneys. I like the group of people and the atmosphere and the games. Even if I lose and catch myself whining and lamenting out loud how I screwed up or what kind of horse shoes my opponent has...its fun and I'm glad I played - win or lose. Very Happy

In a three game tourney it makes sense that the winner has won all his battles. I would like to see it where that was not the sole determining factor. but then that would mean including other scores...Army Presentation, Sportsmanship, Army Comp. I like those in a tourney and I can speak all day on their merits and how they will benefit the event and hobby overall. However, I do realize that due to various issues (time contraints, location, numbers and overall purpose) that specific types of events will focus on specific areas.
Like I said I luv all tourneys and events....but I do believe that a true tournament is a 5 game event including sportsmanship, army comp and army presentation. This type of event is tried and true and really stresses all aspects of the hobby.

But dont get me wrong, like I said I will play all types of battles Very Happy I actually really want to try the team format...hopefully next year I will get into one or maybe we can get one together here in the city.
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Re: League tournament resurgence

Post  squalie on Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:07 pm

Congrats Dom on your tough Twilight Vamps! Wink Congrats Nathan on those presentable Dwarfs!

Even though I missed the event, I have thoughts..

1. In a 3 game tournament, do you think a person should be able to lose a game and still win overall?

If an event only has battle points to determine winner, then only battle points matter. There should be other factors.

2. In a closed tournament, do we need to bring sportsmanship back?

I like Nathans suggestion of best opponent - and giving 5 points for doing so. If you win 3 best that's 15 points which is the equivalent of an average game. good stuff.

3. In a tournament, does army presentation (conversions, theme, build, painting) need to play a larger factor?

I think maybe instead of best painted, we keep doing the best "presentation" voted by the group. A technical best painted boring army could be up against a clever themed army with unit fillers, custom figs, etc and beat the better painted army as it's "cooler"?

You can blame me for the absence of the rules questions and background of past events.. Although, as always, we could put that to a group vote also?
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Re: League tournament resurgence

Post  nathanr on Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:47 am

Hey Carson, do those games count for the league? Do you have them recorded or should I post my results in the league reporting thread as well?
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Re: League tournament resurgence

Post  Carson on Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:04 pm

If it was just league members maybe, with non league members involved its unfair to those that played vs them.

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