Beta rules

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Beta rules

Post  Mhael on Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:53 am

Page 52 model c1
This is a carry over from 1.3 rules but something I have an issue with. There is a diagram under swirling melee that hasnt changed, where a character on side a loses its combat attacks bc a champion on side b in front and kitty corner with it is engaged in a duel.

If the rnf model behind said champion on side b can make supporting attacks, is the character on side a ineligeble as a target? If so I have no issue but I seem to recall this happening and my character side a dying ( only one wound left so hail maryed an atk). Otherwise side a character should be allowed to 'reach over' the duel just like side b rnf


Last edited by Mhael on Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Beta rules

Post  Carson on Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:55 am

What i understand is that rnf can use swirling melee and characters cannot.

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Re: Beta rules

Post  Mhael on Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:08 am

Yes that hasnt changed however its something that should change. If my model can be hit how can it not atk back. Its unrealistic and therefore should be adjusted. Either my character is ineligible to atk and be attacked or vice versa
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Re: Beta rules

Post  Mhael on Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:58 am

The other issue is that the models directly behind the character that loses its atks still get supporting atks even though their nearest target is the champion from side b locked in a combat.

What I am stating is that its clunky, makes no sense as to why the character from side a needs to be blocked from attacking anyway
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Re: Beta rules

Post  Carson on Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:17 pm

Question of the day... according to 2.0 you are shaken until the end of the player turn if you fail a charge. What does player turn mean?
A shaken unit suffers -1 to hit and is hit at +1. Big deal if it lasts into the next combat phase. Iím assuming it means the active players turn but I thought I would get opinions.

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Re: Beta rules

Post  Kal on Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:54 pm

Wouldn't it effectively do nothing if it was only until the end of the active players turn? If you could charge that means you weren't in combat, and if your not in combat it has no effect. Haven't had a 2.0 game yet so maybe i'm way out / not understanding but thats my opinion.

Maybe this is to try and discourage those lucky 12" charges? So you only charge if you are semi confident you are going to make it? Again no idea
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Re: Beta rules

Post  Carson on Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:02 pm

Shaken also acts much the same way as a rally....no magic, shooting etc. I was thinking the same thing about long charges....you can do it but consequences if you fail

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Re: Beta rules

Post  nathanr on Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:16 pm

Itís just giving a name to what has always happened previously. You fail a charge you canít shoot or move otherwise.
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Re: Beta rules

Post  Kal on Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:17 pm

nathanr wrote:Itís just giving a name to what has always happened previously. †You fail a charge you canít shoot or move otherwise.

Aye but the +/- 1 wasn't a thing before. So are just wondering where that fits in... Maybe? again idk
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Re: Beta rules

Post  Kuyp on Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:18 pm

Player turn is the active players turn , charge, move, magic shoot combat done.
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Re: Beta rules

Post  Kal on Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:55 pm

Jeez Dom way to show us all up by actually reading. Ha I think we preferred random speculation and guessing here!

Jk. good call
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Re: Beta rules

Post  Carson on Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:02 pm

I read the rules, hence the question. I would like to see in the rules where it explains what player turn means. Like I said before I'm assuming the above but let's see actual print. Anyone know where to find it.

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Re: Beta rules

Post  Kal on Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:03 pm

III.1.A Player Turn
Each Player Turn is divided into five phases, performed in the following order:
1 Charge Phase
2 Movement Phase
3 Magic Phase
4 Shooting Phase
5 Melee Phase
III.1.B Active and Reactive Player
The Active Player is the player whose turn it currently is.
The Reactive Player is the player whose turn it currently is not.

Page 7 i believe
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Re: Beta rules

Post  Carson on Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:06 pm

I think I found it under general principles. I think it's a case of bad wording in the charge rules. Much like my sentences!

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Re: Beta rules

Post  Mhael on Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:16 pm

The way it reads out if you failed a charge and got the -1/+1 to hit it would be a rare occassion when you would actually see that unit in a combat phase on your own turn so i believe the intent was to be until your next turn. I however cant find anything yet in the 9th forum or faqs to support this.
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Re: Beta rules

Post  Nathan.A. on Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:23 pm

I think they just took the easy way out decided the unit would be "shaken" if a charge fails, since the new shaken is very similar to what used to happen.

Shaken can be gained by a unit in combat, by failing a fear test, hence the negative modifiers to combat. It can also be gained for longer than a player turn by being decimated (I think), again affecting combats. Shaken due to failing a charge can never influence a combat, since there is no way to get that unit into a combat that will be resolved that turn, right?

So I think they just called it "shaken" because it was an easy thing to do, and it covers all the bases they want it to cover, and won't affect things they don't want it to, I think....

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Re: Beta rules

Post  nathanr on Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:31 pm

Exactly that.
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Re: Beta rules

Post  Kal on Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:56 pm

Well worded, sounds good to me.

NEW QUESTION :

So if i give my Merc Vets a Brace of Pistols and then upgrade them to "Poison Attacks" is this shooting and melee ? Below is all i could find on it

Poison Attacks - Attacks & Weapons, Melee, Shooting
If the attack successfully hits with a natural to-hit roll of Ď6í, it automatically wounds with no to-wound roll needed.
Shooting Attacks using the Hopeless Shot
can only automatically wound if the first to-hit roll is a natural Ď6í. Note that
the second to-hit roll must still be successful in order to hit the target. If the attack can be turned into more than one
hit (e.g. a hit with Area Attack
, Battle Focus
, or Penetrating
), only a single hit, chosen by the attacker, automatically
wounds. All other hits must roll to wound as normal.
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Re: Beta rules

Post  nathanr on Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:05 am

How are you giving them poison attacks? Is it an upgrade for the unit or some magic item? Iíd say look at the wording there to see what it applies to.
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Re: Beta rules

Post  Kal on Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:51 am

Upgrade to the unit. It gets to pick two "Maneater" abilities. So bodyguard, accurate, lethal, poison, ap1, swiftstride etc.
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Re: Beta rules

Post  Kuyp on Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:15 am

They get it for both shooting and close combat. Read the little section entitled attack attributes. Then further in the poison rule itself it says... poison attacks- attacks & weapons , melee , shooting,

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Re: Beta rules

Post  Kal on Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:56 am

Excellent! Thanks, time for a barrage of poison pistols !
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Re: Beta rules

Post  Kuyp on Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:45 am

Kal wrote:Excellent! Thanks, time for a barrage of poison pistols !

Ah not that afraid of that really, it's cool especially with the accurate rule as the second choice , but vanguard and devastating charge with additional hand weapons... 4 guys charging in with 20 attacks at strength 6 AP 3 with stomps and impact hits ! Thats unit would be a low strength infantry ranks for days nightmare , something i find ogers dont like to deal with.
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Re: Beta rules

Post  Kal on Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:08 pm

Yeah i know its not the optimal way to go, wasting super super expensive Ogres on 2 shots each at str 4 ap 2. isn't great when i can get them each into combat with 5 attacks each but i mean its FUN! Plus the Brace of Pistols are still paired poison weapons so they will still pack a punch. Give em a Flag with the Swiftstride Stick. PEW PEW PEW and CHARRRRGGGEEE... But again thats what the mini games day is for, so i can test my list and get the bad choices out of my system. Smile
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Re: Beta rules

Post  Kuyp on Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:02 pm

Something was bugging me after my game with Carson I honestly I was not sure what way was right. Looked it up and we in fact did it right but I just wanted to make sure as it would have been a VERY different game if we had done it wrong.

You all probably know this but....
Multiple wounds on a unit, if an attack has multiple wounds ◊ each attack can only ever cause as many wounds as the model being hit has HP, for exsample an attack with d6 multiple wounds causes 5 wounds to a troll (HP3) , the number of wounds suffered is reduced to 3.

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