Tournament rambling

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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  PeterW on Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:24 pm

I am in camp 1.3 for the sole reason that I play WDG and they are the only army to get a full rework which makes things quite difficult. I have some lists made up but have little time to try out the vastly different units. The massive changes leave my previous lists null and void.

That being said, if it ends up being 2.0 I will look forward to trying everything out and will be playing as many games as possible beforehand. Razz
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  blizzard435 on Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:37 pm

I'm ok with either set of rules but think that 1.3 might be easier for people to do as relearning the new rules, list building and getting practice in might be tight. †Changes to magic alone could make for interesting tweaks that in three weeks we might not have even scratched the surface.
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  Derek on Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:57 pm

I am up for the challenge. I say lets go with 2.0.
I know I will be kicking myself for forgetting some rule in the game - but I will be doing that with 1.3 anyway Rolling Eyes

I like the idea of extending the time for each game....especially since this is only a one day event.

I also like the idea of reporting stuff back to T9A about our results and any issues. I don't know how good everyone's notes would be but some info would be good.

2.0 is the accepted version now and its looks awesome...I have not played a game yet but I will be tonight.

On a bye the bye, I am more than a little unhappy with the poor enrollment from Alberta players, especially after altering the tourney per some concerns they seemed to have had. The added event in Feb is a big FU to Sask. But we will champion on and prove to all we have a better community of players here.
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  PeterW on Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:05 pm

Gotta say I am more and more liking the idea of helping test the 2.0 beta with the tournament. That and if the league is 2.0 right now we won't be going back and forth with editions. Plus I can use the day at Carson's to test my new lists out Very Happy Forget my previous post, I am all for 2.0 Razz
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  Mhael on Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:32 am

We will stick with the 2.0 beta rules and increase the time limit to play.
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  Kal on Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:26 am

Ok, sorry guys i can no longer get the plaques done, December 21st i asked for more info about the size etc but never got an answer and now it is to late to get this done with my guy.

Sorry.

Also i feel we should do 1.3 for simplicity but thats just my opinion. Plus easier to verify army lists with Army Builder.
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  Carson on Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:11 am

no problem sean.

the 9th age site under recent files has the beta files for army builder.

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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  Mhael on Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:52 pm

I spoke with a few of the Alberta guys suggesting we may move our tournament date to a better travel time of year. Looking at the provincial timeline we came up with 2 proposed dates. Sept 15 or 29th. Thoughts?
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  Mhael on Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:38 pm

Some changes for our next tournament:

-instead of best painted it will be best presented army. Meaning you dont have to be the one who actually painted the army (if you morally feel disinclined to recieve a prize for someone elses work, paint scores will only be used for overall)

- if over 75% of your army was previously used to win a tournament you will be exempt from winning that prize (painting score will still be used for accumulated scores however)

-
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  nathanr on Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:44 pm

Why would you make that change? †I strongly disagree that someone should win best presentation with an army they did not paint. †You should not be able to buy (or borrow) a presentation award.
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  Mhael on Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:54 pm

As we grow and invite out of province people we won't know they actually produced the work. Also in our group there have been lots of traded armies and sold armies to increase our player pool.
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  Mhael on Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:56 pm

We can seperate the two scores: one for overall accumulated score (presentation) and one as just painted where you affirm your eligibility as your own original work
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  nathanr on Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:58 pm

Whatever, Iím not going to argue it into the ground but confirming that someone painted their own army is as easy as asking.
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  Mhael on Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:18 pm

Its more an issue of using a painting score to determine an overall hobby champ but not fair to win a painting award for someone elses work
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  Carson on Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:32 pm

I spent the day yesterday not feeling so good....curse you derek and your plague....so I thought today I would put out my feedback from the weekend.

It was a good start, but we have a long way to go to make this a premier event. A lot of issues came up during the day that need addressing.
First, I would strongly encourage our club to take over the event. Club participation will only make this the event that we all want. The work load can be spread out and everyone's ideas can be put forward. Second, the date needs to be moved. We encountered conflicting events, bad weather, and other issues that dropped our attendance. The proposed dates can be discussed but early feedback we heard were late august, early september. I would suggest that a follow up event be planned this year in that time frame.

One of the biggest issues we faced was sportsmanship.....which did not work. There were some glaring issues that were presented to us once it was too late to do anything about it. The method used didnt allow us to rectify any problems that arose. This is an area that needs to be cleaned up before the next event. The one positive I took from it was including sportsmanship in the best general award.

The main thing I want to stress is feedback and club participation. Improvements can only be made with input from the club as a whole.

With these few points in mind, please voice your opinions. I want Saskatoon to be known as a premier spot on the tournament circuit. Lets, as a whole, make this happen.

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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  Kal on Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:53 pm

This event was alot of fun! Great atmosphere for the most part all around. Great venue and the pace of the whole day was good imo. I friggen loved those etched clear trophies and DEFINITELY wanted one haha (next event one is so mine!) Thanks for putting this on Carson and Andre. Andre even stayed very late on the Friday to rearrange the tables and they came out MUCH MUCH better the 2nd time. Lots of room to walk around all sides of the tables with extra room to store dead figs and dice etc. Also lots more room for even more tables for the next event! Looking forward to the next time this is put on, even got to meet some guys from Alberta and even some other guys from Saskatoon i have never met before so that was nice. Just reinstated the fact that i need to get out to more events and more outside of Saskatchewan. Looking forward to attending the next event! Anytime in Sept is good for me!

I am with Nathan about the painting thing, I know i'm not a good painter but compared to when i started this hobby i have gotten much better at it imo, but you can't just purchase a "Win" in any of the other categories so why should you beable to for painting? I mean i guess you could pay off an opponent for sportsman but still... Also best presentation instead of painted is nice too, Display board, custom figs / command, magnetized armies, lots of other ways to judge instead of just painting. I noticed the T.O's walking around inspecting armies and i liked that, asking where the command was located, if it was custom or OEM. I think that helped make it not all aobut the paint. Idk

*Wasn't done typing before Carson Posted:

I was also SOOOO sick yesterday, like take me out back and shoot me sick. I think club participation would be an easier thing for the next event, now that most of us got to experience this event first hand. Maybe actually design and plan out tables with terrain ahead of time instead of just throwing stuff down.
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  Mhael on Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:04 pm

Another thing I will stress is playing the game appropriately. How you play can have an impact on the results of other games. We had 4 potential contenders in the running and by allowing one player to go back a phase (creating a chain reaction which collapsed a flank) it affected the overall tournament results. I later found that this happened on a few tables once where it was not allowed. Allowing a person to go back a phase bc they forgot to do something is simply not allowed and should not be a factor towards sportsmanship scores either. If you forgot to do something you forgot.
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  Nathan.A. on Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:38 pm

I think Andre is 100% right about the rules exceptions. If some people are allowing rule breaking/bending and others aren't it creates an unfair playing field. To prevent this we may even want to stress to players that they have no choice about these types of things, taking the choice out of their hands as to make things easier on everyone.

As far as army presentation vs painting goes I really don't know what to think. If someone spent $1000 on a professional painting service should they be exempt from winning an award for their army? They may not have done the work themselves but they caused the work to be done, which could be thought of as just as legitimate. I don't have a stance on this just yet, if/when I figure one out I'll make it known.
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  Kuyp on Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:00 pm

As far as I'm concerned if painting score should be awarded to the best looking army. NO MATTER WHAT!

(sorry don) I also think that an army should not be punished just because it has won before. If you have put in attention and care to making your army look intense you should be rewarded for that as long as no one else has done a better job. If a player is really good should they be prohibited from wining a tournament just because they have won before? Absolutely not ! So why do the same for painting or even sportsmanship for that matter. If your the best your the best deal with it lol
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  blizzard435 on Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:38 pm

Kuyp wrote:As far as I'm concerned if painting score should be awarded to the best looking army. NO MATTER WHAT!

(sorry don) I also think that an army should not be punished just because it has won before. If you have put in attention and care to making your army look intense you should be rewarded for that as long as no one else has done a better job. †If a player is really good should they be prohibited from wining a tournament just because they have won before? Absolutely not ! So why do the same for painting or even sportsmanship for that matter. If your the best your the best deal with it lol

I'm inclined to agree with this. While it's hard to police who painted who's army, it could be even more difficult to police people playing the same army over and over again.

I like the concept of painting presentation award being a single model presentation award and keep army painting to Overall score. Maybe even have the single model score change from year to year. So next year, have single on foot character, year after have best monster, best mounted, etc. Plus it's easier to judge a single model for a 'best painted' model than a whole army of models.
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  squalie on Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:59 am

Kuyp wrote:As far as I'm concerned if painting score should be awarded to the best looking army. NO MATTER WHAT!

(sorry don) I also think that an army should not be punished just because it has won before. If you have put in attention and care to making your army look intense you should be rewarded for that as long as no one else has done a better job. †If a player is really good should they be prohibited from wining a tournament just because they have won before? Absolutely not ! So why do the same for painting or even sportsmanship for that matter. If your the best your the best deal with it lol

No need to apologize, I just thought it may open up some new armies. I'm totally cool with an army winning again. Smile
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  Kal on Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:19 am

Valid arguments about if the same person can win sportsman 3 tourneys in a row why can't you win the same painting 3 tourneys in a row.

On that note, I'll buy your Tomb King Army Don Wink best painted here i come! ha jkjk
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  Mhael on Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:45 pm

We will be shooting for september 15th as our tournament date. Anyone who would like to contribute their time or skills in organizing text either Carson or myself
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  Galadros on Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:55 pm

Kuyp wrote:As far as I'm concerned if painting score should be awarded to the best looking army. NO MATTER WHAT!

HELL NO... is my quick response, but let me elaborate. Our hobby has the 3 primary pillars of Tactician, Hobbyist, and Sportsman. (I think we all agree at least as far as this). Tournaments typically are a celebration of all three in some varying degree of prominence. Let's draw some parallels between the three. If I standby and have an expert Warhammer player go through the motions of my tournament games in my stead, do I deserve the trophy when he crushes all my opponents? When I hire a charismatic person to interact with my opponents, while I silently push models about, do I deserve a sportsmanship prize? Why then should I expect to win accolades for an army I had no creative part in?

My stance is that a borrowed or painted army should score ZERO towards presentation awards. If this hurts the feelings of those that want to field a fully painted army, I am sorry, but it is part of our hobby. Do your best, and be proud of what you can accomplish. Then try to improve by the time the next event comes around. Isn't this what you aim to do as a tactician? As a sportsman? Why think of painting differently?
For instance, if I scored 30/60 in battle points this time, I would want to aim for 40+ next time. If I got marked down for being pouty by one of my opponents, I would want to avoid being pouty at the next event. Similarly, if I didn't paint my army to show enough contrast, I would go back to the hobby table to build on that feedback for the next tournament.

These seem like such simple parallels to me. I hope some of you can understand it in a similar way. I will close with this thought... If I was at an event where an award for painting/presentation was given to someone who didn't contribute any time or creative expression to create the winning piece, I would feel absolutely cheated. Not just for myself, but every other hobbyist who put in hours, effort, and creativity into their own projects.

Kuyp wrote:(sorry don) I also think that an army should not be punished just because it has won before. If you have put in attention and care to making your army look intense you should be rewarded for that as long as no one else has done a better job. †If a player is really good should they be prohibited from wining a tournament just because they have won before? Absolutely not ! So why do the same for painting or even sportsmanship for that matter. If your the best your the best deal with it lol

At least we can agree on this.
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Re: Tournament rambling

Post  nathanr on Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:30 pm

I agree 100% with Kieran and he explained it in a way that even if I hadn't agreed with him before I would now.

I like some of the ideas that are coming from this discussion though. †A separate, single model painting competition (aka Golden Daemon) would really let the quality painters shine and show off their skills and then those of us who don't have the patience for spending many hours on a single mini can compete for the best hobby score as part of the overall tournament score. †Maybe you've written an elaborate back-story and made a diorama display board to tell that story about your army. †Maybe you've made a bayou-themed troll army complete with banjos and overalls. †Maybe you've carefully assembled and ranked your empire militia units such that the units tell a story all by themselves. †Maybe your ogre maneater unit is modeled to look like the Avengers. †That should be celebrated and your painting skills, while important to a degree, should not be the ultimate measuring stick for a "hobby" score.

As a side note, I once won a best painted trophy by default as I was the only person with a fully painted army. †It didn't feel like an achievement. †I have also lost "best painted" (at least in my mind) to someone who didn't paint their army. †I felt cheated. †If we can ensure that those two scenarios don't happen to anyone I'd say we've succeeded.
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