league/tournament ideas

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league/tournament ideas

Post  Carson on Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:41 am

I've noticed that most tournaments and casual games are now played at the 4500pt level with the release of 1.3

Is this a move that we should make. For one it makes a player make those hard choices in building a list, plus when we attend out of town tournaments we will not have to adjust our lists or play style to match.

Another question I want to throw out is over the question of tournaments. What is the ideal tournament rules-wise that everyone wants to see. I used to run them including sportsmanship, composition, painting and battle points. With our small group people wanted to drop comp and sportsmanship, now Iv'e heard talk of bringing them back.

I'd like to run tournaments (which are important events for our community cohesiveness) that everyone enjoys and approves of the format......maybe that is an impossibility, but I'd like to try.

thoughts?

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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  Kal on Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:06 pm

I am 100% good with 4500 points and already have lists pointed like that for half my armies. IMO because i am obviously the elephant in the room. I think we should run them exactly like the rest of the world runs their tourneys. Sportsman and all. Not picking and choosing the rules we like. Again IMO.
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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  Carson on Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:24 pm

then the question is, will you show up to a tournament like that. With this last one I dropped the painting points to 5 specifically for you and it was still an issue.

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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  Kal on Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:31 pm

Yes i will, because its all or nothing IMO. Score EVERYTHING like for like with other tourneys, or nothing. Get it?

Plus this is all totally Don's fault, he bet me $5 i couldnt get the tourney canceled. Won me five bucks guys! #worthit
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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  squalie on Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:37 pm

Kal wrote:Yes i will, because its all or nothing IMO. Score EVERYTHING like for like with other tourneys, or nothing. Get it?

Plus this is all totally Don's fault, he bet me $5 i couldnt get the tourney canceled. Won me five bucks guys! #worthit

Not even sure what that sentence means.

I feel all aspects of the hobby should be rewarded and if someone chooses to not show up because of format - that says more about the player than it does the format. Some people simply don't get it. Wink

I like the painting because I like the painting. Sportsmen should be something, but in our group it's rarely an issue, but we SHOULD set up a format so we can encourage new players to join.

Neither one of those scores need to be huge, but they should count.

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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  nathanr on Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:45 pm

Composition seems like a thing of the past, are the 9th age guys elsewhere doing additional composition rules over and above the standard rules? Seems like overkill to me if they are as 9th age seems pretty balanced as it is.

With a small group of guys who all know and like each other sportsmanship is a bit of a wash too, all we determine is who the nicest nice guy is on that particular day.

Honestly, I don't care about painting either. I think my armies look good but I don't care if anyone else does. I think it should be in there just because it pisses Sean off but I don't want to win a painting award by default because I had the only fully painted army (it has happened and it was sad).

I always enjoy your tournaments Carson, regardless of the rules/scoring.

Accommodate those who are tougher to please and I'll happily show up to play.
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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  squalie on Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:53 pm

I'd have to agree.  I'll show up regardless, and to be honest - like Nathan said, I kinda paint for myself now. Smile
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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  squalie on Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:45 pm

I'm trying to make my armies 4500 points and holy crap, there are some tough decisions to make! It's a huge difference (for me) as it goes into what I'll paint, etc for an army. it changes a lot actually.
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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  nathanr on Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:25 pm

I'm going to have a look at my lists and see what changes I can make. Are we for sure going to 4500? I'm good either way.
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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  Kal on Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:26 pm

All my armies now have 4500 point lists... some i was ok with, some i had to make some hard choices.

Me and Brian are going 4500 O&G vs Chaos Warriors tomorrow. He thinks he's got these little green guys figured out after the games on saturday Wink i will show him no two Goblin armies are alike haha.
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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  squalie on Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:18 am

nathanr wrote:I'm going to have a look at my lists and see what changes I can make.  Are we for sure going to 4500?  I'm good either way.

I think that's what we're doing here is throwing out some thoughts and votes. I'm good either way, but it does make things tricky for my Daemons and using a Greater Daemon.
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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  blizzard435 on Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:53 am

I'm good either way.
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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  Kal on Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:38 am

My big thing is i don't want to be unprepared when we go out of town. Being unfamiliar with 4500 points you know?
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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  Nathan.A. on Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:27 pm

I think that sportsmanship is a hard thing to get right. Being a good sportsman to me means:
- Not crying over dice rolls, it gets all of us sometime or another. A certain amount of displeasure is allowed, but people know exactly what I'm talking about with this one; that one guy from Calgary (I think) who I don't know his name comes to mind, he was the worst for this.
- Don't insist on being right while also being unwilling to check the rule book.
- Don't touch the successful dice rolls when you're playing with someone you don't know, it's just courtesy.
- Insisting someone is wrong and proving it DOES NOT make you a bad sportsman, just be polite about it.
- If your opponent forgot to do something that was obviously the right thing to do at the time, just let them redo it. I understand this one is tough, but do you really want to win a game just because your opponent forgot to resolve a certain combat? I know I don't.
- Insisting on rules-as-written is the right thing to do. People play on the assumption that the rules will be followed, enforcing them exactly is not bad sportsmanship, even if you're "cheesing" them a little. Also don't be mad at a person for doing something like this, if it is allowed in the rules then it shouldn't make you mad, especially in a tournament scene.

These are all just some of my thoughts, and the fact that everyone thinks of a sportsman in a different way means it's a really hard thing to quantify. The other issue resides in people maybe not giving other people a good sportsman score because it could cause them to lose the overall, I don't know, it's tough.

I like 4500 and I like the idea of being consistent with other clubs and tournaments, it makes us seem more legit I think.

As far as a presentation award I would really like to see it be as simple as: everyone gets a vote, everyone votes on their favourite army, that army wins the award.
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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  Carson on Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:32 pm

Hey, good post Nathan. Sportsmanship is quite easy when you have a large group and many diverse players, however, in a small group where we are all friends it is almost redundant. Most local tournaments that I ran that included sportsmanship came down to a wash......all the scores were either 4 or 5 out of 5.

The painting award is a good idea, the problem is including it in the total overall score......a lot of different opinions on this!

Lets try 4500pts as the new norm and if people don't like it then we can re think.....

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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  squalie on Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:39 pm

Great post Nathan.
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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  squalie on Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:56 pm

So, I thought I'd ask around (Facebook, Edmonton 9th group, Calgary forums, etc) and ask what the most common army point value is, and it actually seems to be 5000. All Edmonton/Calgary events and pick up games are 5000 points. I've noticed Ontario events are also 5000. Carson, where did you see that 4500 is the more common value? Simply curious.

Having written that, I have to admit I looked into it as I'm finding I prefer 5000 points - but wanted to see what the other groups were doing.

*edit* Looking into it further, it seems to depend on where you live. UK is generally 4500, USA ranges from 4500 to 6000 and Canada is often 5000. Weird.

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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  Carson on Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:17 am

Almost all of the events I've followed were 4500pts. If alberta is running 5000 then that blows the theory out of the water.

So whats the consenus? 4500 or stick to 5000?

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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  Kal on Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:04 pm

I am definitely in for 4500 points, it seems to be the common point value i see. Wasnt the actual common tournament point for 8th set at 2250 ? Which doubling for 9th age puts us to 4500? I thought this was the reason for the 4500 number.

Also

Looks like painting / scoring isn't only an issue for us.

http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?thread/25156-adopting-a-universal-standard-for-soft-scores-at-tournaments/&postID=610502#post610502

Like this point

"Reason for painting
Personal preference but i don't like that commisioned work increases the victory points of the player. It stinks of pay to win for me. If the individual wants a gorgeous army. +1 to that guy. But to ignore completely is to ignore a part of the hobby some other people enjoy. Adding a seperate award system lets hobby and competitiveness be parallel while not forcing one on the other."

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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  squalie on Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:39 pm

Almost all of the events I've followed were 4500pts

I'm guessing from the 9th age forum? That's where I noticed 4500 points also, but I've been putting more thought into this and I think we should stick with 5000.

If the UK is generally 4500 that means nothing to the games we play in Saskatchewan. Also, I even see a few 5K events across the pond. The fact that Alberta is 5000, means a lot more to our group. If we use the reasoning to switch to 4500 to "get used to the point limit in case we go to events" applies only if we go to the UK and some US events. It's far more likely (guaranteed) that we will go to Alberta events, or they come to ours. We would only be playing 4500 and then have to adjust to 5000 as soon as we leave the province. I posted on the Edmonton and Calgary 9th Age page asking what's the point limit they use and every response was 5k, for events and casual games.

I'm pretty resolute about 5K, unless someone can convince me we're going to Monthly UK events. Very Happy
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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  Kal on Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:41 pm

I'm just not convinced the norm is 5000 in Canada... where are you seeing this? I think i'll just post on the 9th forums ... let them decide

Just saying the rule book was designed for 4500, so i say go with that.
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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  squalie on Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:58 pm

Kal wrote:I'm just not convinced the norm is 5000 in Canada... where are you seeing this? I think i'll just post on the 9th forums ... let them decide

Just saying the rule book was designed for 4500, so i say go with that.

If you read the post above I mentioned where I saw that. Also, do you mean you're going to post on the 9th Age forums and let them decide for our community?

I don't have a huge opinion either way and will go with what the majority decides. It just seems odd to change just for the sake of change and then have to adjust again when we go to other events.
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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  Kal on Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:02 pm

Link it then

because across Canada if anything i'm seeing both generally *** and not just on the 9th age forums, other forums, Facebook etc  

If the 9th age forum is going to decide the game our community is playing then i don't see why they shouldnt tell us the proper points to play this game at?

Again everyone else seemed to play 8th tournaments at 2250 and we played at 2500. Just saying as this didn't get an answer and i never knew why.

Also dont care what we play but it makes a huge difference on my lists including the new Ogres i'm in the process of building, i would just like to know so i can adjust accordingly mid build.
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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  blizzard435 on Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:05 pm

So... who wants to plan a trip to the UK for a 9th age tourny? Would be a great time I'm sure!
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Re: league/tournament ideas

Post  squalie on Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:20 pm

Kal wrote:My big thing is i don't want to be unprepared when we go out of town. Being unfamiliar with 4500 points you know?

 Since you never go out of town I don't see this as being an issue for you. Wink  I also mentioned (many times) that since we only ever go to Alta for events, and they literally told me they're all 5000, that's what I'm basing my opinion on - that's it.  The Calgary events, the Edmonton event coming up and the Red Deer event in a couple weeks are all 5000.

 Again, not willing to draw blood over this, but it seems anyone close to us is playing 5000.  If we played 2500 when some of the world was playing 2250 (and also 2500) not sure what the difference is now?
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