Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

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Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  Kal on Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:51 pm

The only thing i will say about this list is that we were trying out Piranha instead of Serpent mark, we have found fear to be a game changer but sadly the army he faced was WoC so fear didnt even come into play and it seemed like a waste of points. Usually we go Serpent Mark for extra rank of attacks.

Skink High Priest
LVL 4
Grounding Rod
Path of Wilderness

Skink Priest
LVL 2
Dispel Scroll
Path of Heavens

Skink Captian --- Character only here for the spear, its a cheap good 2D6 str 6 impact hit toughness 6 monster. with a 3+ AS and 6 wounds. fierce
Spear of the stampede
Ancient Taurosaur

Saurian Veteran
BSB
Armour of Destiny
Great Weapon

21 Saurian Warriors
Spears
Full Command
Piranha (for fear)

21 Saurian Warriors
Spears
Full Command
Piranha (for fear)

14 Skink Braves
Short Bow
Champion

14 Skink Braves
Short Bow
Champion

6 Caimans (Kroxigors)
Greatweapons
3+ Armour Save upgrade
Full Command

10 Raptor riders,
Full Command
2+ Armour Save Upgrade
Gleaming Icon Banner

3 Skink Sky Riders
Ramphodon Upgrade (toad)
3+ Armour save on these bad boys too


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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  Kal on Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:54 pm

I think smashing the Saurian Warriors into one big unit or two units of 25 with Serpent mark is the next smart move to go.

Brian really likes Temple guard but i have a hard time liking them, at only having a slightly better stat line with some special rules im not a fan. +1 WS / STR plus they cant take weapon master anymore and they cant UNTAKE the Halberds, so ure stuck with a 4+ as same as the Saurian Warriors. That being said Skeletons and Tomb Guard are the same way.

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  Kuyp on Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:28 pm

Want my advice? Two unit of saurus 36 strong. 6x6 block arm them with spear and sheild then a block of like 30 temple gaurd add slan and stegadon season wirh skinks and whatever else you think is cool.

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  nathanr on Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:33 pm

Agree with Dom, although I'd also put a hero level saurus character in each of those saurus units. Give each heavy armour and a great weapon. Serpent totem on each of those units too.

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  Kal on Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:55 pm

Hrm... they use to be limited to 25 Saurian Warriors per unit, its upped to 35 i did not know that... hence the small units

Gonna make some changes, see what happens. ha advice welcome, thats why i posted lists

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  Kal on Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:34 pm

Skink High Priest
Skink Palanquin (gives him the slann's chair special rule)
LVL 4 Wilderness
Grounding Rod

Skink Priest
LVL 2 Heavens
Dispel Scroll

Skink Captian
Spear of the Stampede (+d6 impacts hit to mount)
Ancient Taurosaur with Engine of the Gods (gives him something to do till charge)

Saurian Veteran
BSB
Great Weapon
Armour of Destiny (3+/4+ save, only 2 wounds scares me, maybe shield?)

20 Skink Braves (for Palaquin that takes up 4 spots)
Full Command
Short Bows

10 Skink Braves (for lvl 2)
Champion
Short Bows

35 Saurian Warriors (for bsb)
Spears
Serpent Mark
Full Command

10 Raptor Riders
Full Command

6 Caimans (these guys are 347 points, 18 wounds with T4 and 3+ AS)
Halberd (can still re roll 1's and strike at I2)
Full Command

3 Skink Sky-Riders
Ramphodon (toad)

So its pritty much the first list with a fix on the core and some adjustments on the characters and unit equipment. Not enough blocks of guys maybe? the Saurian Warriors are 515 points! like damn spears and snake mark alone are 102 points for both!

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  Kuyp on Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:03 am

I always found the Saurus were best at holding the line not nessiarliy killing shit cause with mediocre ws the can't hit for shit and strength 4 isn't always what it's made out to be.

If the spears are costly drop them. It the mark thing is costly drop it as well. Then at least they don't cost as much.

The kroxigor or what ever they are called now can take halberds?  That's cool but if they can have great weapons take em . Most things that can hurt you will already swing before you. So make sure when you hit them they stay dead !

And that skink unit of 20 to protect your caster ? Every thing about that screens wrong cause they are sooo  bad that if they got charged by some fast cav even, my bets on the fast cav.


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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  nathanr on Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:31 am

How about this:

Cuatl Lord, Master of Magic

Saurian Veteran, Heavy armour, Great Weapon
Saurian Veteran, Heavy armour, great weapon

35 Saurian Warriors - Serpent Totem, Hand weapons and shields, full command
35 Saurian Warriors - Serpent Totem, Hand weapons and shields, full command
20 Temple Guard - Full command
Taurosaur
Taurosaur
Stygiosaur with champion upgrade

And you have 93 points to spend on whatever else you might want. It is a little light on shooting with only the three dinosaurs being able to shoot but you've got 3 solid combat blocks and the taurosaurs will wreck stuff too. You have a killer magic phase as well between the cuatl lord and the stygiosaur you've got whatever you want for spells and taking the best 2 of 3 winds of magic dice means you'll have enough power dice to cast those spells.

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  Kuyp on Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:02 am

nathanr wrote:
 It is a little light on shooting with only the three dinosaurs being able to shoot .


its pretty much a perfect list i would say and dont worry about the shooting from dinos, thats not there ture strength and if that's why you take them you have done horribly wrong

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  Kal on Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:10 am

Dont have time to respond fully right now so ill just shoot this out so i dont forget and respond to the rest later. the reason for Halberd on Kroxigor isnt to keep my I 2 its becaues PREDATORY FIGHTER allows anyone with that rule aka everything but skinks to RE ROLL their failed 1's to HIT with everything except for GREAT WEAPONS and MAGIC WEAPONS.


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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  Kal on Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:19 am

Wont those Saurian vets only have a 3+ AS? that doesnt seem like enough with only tough 5 and 2 wounds. imo.

Seems like alot of foot soldiers in this army, not a bad thing just i dont see any "answers" but hell what do i know, ill throw this list into the army builder and we will give it a ago for our game tonight. TK vs Lizards.

How would you guys run the blocks of Saurian's and Temple Guard? and no BSB?

Thanks for the suggestions guys! maybe these are the changes he needs to get back into the swing of things.

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  Kuyp on Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:47 am

Kal wrote:Wont those Saurian vets only have a 3+ AS? that doesnt seem like enough with only tough 5 and 2 wounds. imo.

Seems like alot of foot soldiers in this army, not a bad thing just i dont see any "answers" but hell what do i know, ill throw this list into the army builder and we will give it a ago for our game tonight. TK vs Lizards.

How would you guys run the blocks of Saurian's and Temple Guard? and no BSB?

Thanks for the suggestions guys! maybe these are the changes he needs to get back into the swing of things.


I liked to run 6 X 6 blocks for the saurus and i think i did 8 wide for the temple guard, i always ran the slann in the temple unit and still normally got all my attacks or close to. if it seems like lots of infantry its because that's whats good lol.

as far as the halberds predatory thing, i would probably still go with great weapons. they have the only "In bulk" high strength attacks in the army.

the scar verterans or whatever they are called now i liked halberd and light Armour or heavy Armour if they can. i think they were like 86 points or something before. good cheap killing machines

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  Kuyp on Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:57 am

and here is some advise for you to pass on to the new players Sean. plan plan plan plan! don't get caught up in oh that's my favorite unit or they should be able to handle that unit! type thinking. crush an enemy, toss everything you have at it to kill it out right. long drawn out combat are not something any army really wants unless you have massive numbers on your side. but even then you still want to wrap it up as quickly as possible. proper planning is key to getting the combats you want and stacking the victory odds in your favor. remember its a strategic game and don't just push unit across the field in a straight line, have a plan b and be able to accept losses when the happen. if your whole battle line depends on one unit then don't take that list

If these new players want advise on how to play im more then willing to help, we have all been on the losing side when first playing, in fact when Andre and i first started to play we only really played against each other and i know i didn't learn shit until i got games in with a wide array of other people.

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  nathanr on Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:28 am

The 2 hero level characters are there to give the units some punch. They are fairly safe because in a big fight a smart opponent isn't going to be allocating attacks to a T5 3+AS character. They will be going for combat resolution and that means they'll target the T4 4+AS rank and file. If the characters die it is only 115 points lost and more importantly your opponent will have given up a lot of combat resolution in that round of combat because those 2 wounds will be caused by at least 4 or more attacks which could have targeted rank and file instead.

If you want a bsb, put it on your lord. He's safer.

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  Kal on Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:32 pm

I cant say i agree with everything you guys said but you guys have been playing way longer then me and i sometimes get blinded with an army build and i find myself unable to stray from it. But its not my army so i'll make the list for Brian tonight, im sure he will be eager to try the list you guys made and ill let you know what happens!

Altho with the half point rule i have been targeting stuff different in 9th then i did in 8th. Half point characters are sooo worth it Wink

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  Kal on Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:50 am

So... not gonna lie we tried this list. I faced it with my WS7 TK list that i posted... and wiped the lizards off the table by end of turn 3...

The spell that is like casket of souls blew through his dino's and killed 1 right away and half wounded the other two to near death, Battle Sphinx slaughtered the saurians who held up for a while because of ranks i will admit the guy who did the most wounds in that unit was the character, (but i was throwing attacks at it to kill it), the other unit of saurian failed a not so long charge on my necrosphinx that had just charged one of his Dino's, the necrosphinx ate the dino and overran into the rear of another dino that was about to munch on some Skele Archers, My necrosphinx slaughtered both dino's easy, EVEN WITH WS/I 10 on the dinos (Light Lore), My 50 man WS7 skeleton unit got a long flank charge on the unit of Saurians that failed their charge, i buffed my skeles like crazy getting 3 good spells off on them (because Master of Magic does not help your dispel phase) and my Skeles cleaned up the saurians and they fled on double 1's. He killed 1 Skeleton and i killed like 15 Saurians... So end of turn 3 he had his Temple Guard and.... nope just those...

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  Kal on Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:24 am

We arnt even going to record this game tbh, he didnt do anything wrong. Literally i would have moved / attempted the same charges he did, so not sure what to say... going to try my list tonight or Sunday. He did roll a little sub par so maybe thats it. Its a very tricky list point wise, if you want to pimp out the dinos then you go over on your Rare allowance, also no room for dispel scroll or any extra banners. and the Scar Vets came to 120 fyi, not sure how u got 115, Heavy armour is 20 points now and use to be 15 points maybe?

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  nathanr on Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:41 pm

85+20+10=115.  I'm guessing you also  gave him a shield which is fairly useless if he's got a great weapon.

How did the cuatl lord do?  What else did you add to the army with the extra 93 points?  Probably could have given the cuatl lord a dispel scroll if you wanted one. What lore did the cuatl lord use?

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  Kal on Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:56 pm

nathanr wrote:85+20+10=115.  I'm guessing you also  gave him a shield which is fairly useless if he's got a great weapon.

How did the cuatl lord do?  What else did you add to the army with the extra 93 points?  Probably could have given the cuatl lord a dispel scroll if you wanted one.  What lore did the cuatl lord use?

Hrm ... no shield... Army builder just put it at 120 points... The Wolf Lair army builder is very wrong for 9th so far ive noticed. My necrosphinx has str 6 but the Army builder says str 5. Random figs have extra armour for no explainable reason, we had a unit of Halberd weilding Full Plate wearing shieldless unit of Chaos Warriors and they kept clocking in at 3+ AS, but we did the math 100 times and Full Plate gives you 4+ and nothing else on him but a Halberd and Mark of Khorne....

93 points haha, 83 after the Scar Vets but they went into 15 points for each of the impact hit dino's for sharpened horns letting them reroll their impact dice. and 40 went into ONE of those dino's to make him ancient giving him more wounds and strength, and the rest went into an engine of the gods that was useless because when i designed it for my list it helps out Skinks not Slanns in magic by making any lore of your choice cost -2 that turn to cast spells which essentially turns your wizards into old school lvl 4's getting a +4 to cast "Technically". And my skeletons didnt shoot at anything all game so the 5+ Ward vs shooting didnt help. Lore of Light on the Slann, he was ... underwhelming... imo i dont know what brian thought. He felt like a super expensive version of the lvl 4 skink that brian usually brings, did the same or less because he was trapped in that big temple guard unit, so i mean A fight with the temple guard but expose the slann or B waste the temple guard not fighting but safe slann... idk thats why i like the skink caster because when he is hiding in a giant unit of skinks they just shoot with 18" bows because you NEVER want them in combat anyways so no waste, plus smaller footprint and higher movement makes Skinks much more manouverable imo.

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  nathanr on Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:16 pm

Being in the temple guard unit shouldn't affect the cuatl lord's effectiveness much.  The lore of light has a lot of good spells with range.  Because you can put him in the second rank he isn't exposed even in combat either and he can still cast most of the spells from the path into combat.

All I'm saying is you shouldn't base your opinion on one game.  Especially when testing out a list that is so different from the lists Brian is used to playing.

It's too bad Zack isn't around anymore. He'd have lots to say about the Lizardmen.

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  Kal on Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:30 pm

It limited his effectiveness just simply because of the footprint of the Temple Guard, 20mm Skinks run 6x5 at movement 6 can run around behind stuff easier then 25mm bases running 8 wide. You cant use your "cast through other skinks or the engine of the gods" to cast anything but direct damage now unless you pay for an upgrade or something. Yeah i know the Slann went to the 2nd rank, but so does a Skink on a chair Wink . my only point was when Brian runs giant units of Temple guard with a character or a bsb in it that isnt a slann its a much more scary come at me unit then it is with a lvl 4 general AND bsb Slann in it, imo.

I agree that changing lists every game is silly, honestly the ONE thing im trying to get these new guys to do is run the same list like 20 TIMES so you can learn the game, and get familiar with the list and army. They keep making drastically different army lists every game and its not giving them a chance to get familiar with anything. Plus forgetting their own rules is just hurting them, Hell brian didnt use his "Toad" rerolls on the Sky Riders when fighting a hellcannon against Ryen, TOTAL game changer there but since every time he runs that unit he changes the mounts or their gear he didnt know and it was to late. idk i wish these guys would post here because right now i feel like the go between so now i'll have to go explain all of this to them and they will ask me why and i will explain your reasoning then they ask me why my lists arnt built that way then i have to RE explain that its not my opinions per say its your guys opinions and i dont disagree with them just that they are different and ARGFUCKENFUCKARG... you know what appreciate the help with these new guys but honestly fuck em they ALL have computers and internet if they want help they can stop being so fckin lazy and log in here themselves, they all have accounts.

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  nathanr on Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:57 pm

This is definitely a more static list but I don't think a caster with 48" range needs to be "running around behind things". Especially not when most of his spells are buffs that he's going to want to cast on his unit and the other two combat units that are close by.

Changing your list up is fine, especially when you are learning but after playing as many games as you and Brian have done he should have a pretty good idea (probably better than me) what works for him and what doesn't. If he has a list that he likes, he should stick with it and just change a unit here and there as he sees what works and what doesn't from game to game.

Also, you need to quit making his lists for him. That way he can have some surprises for you. Other than that, I think both you and Brian should talk about your games after they are done. Why did the winner win? Was it purely bad luck or when you look past the dice was there something that could have been done differently? Even if it is something as far back in the game as deployment. It isn't always one thing either, small mistakes and bad choices add up.

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Re: Brian's Newest Lizardmen 2500 pts

Post  Kal on Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:29 pm

I only have made the last 3-4 lists for him, he made all of the others. I just started to help because he wasnt having much luck and he thought it was his list building or his rolls and i can only help him with one of those.

Meh if he reads this then I'm sure he will thank you for the help, if not fuck him.

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