The 9th Age is Upon Us

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The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  Kal on Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:30 pm

Sooooo I don't want to be this guy again but.... Me and Brian are switching to The 9th Age... ( http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?simple-page/ ). unfortunately it just seems like the best rule set we have played\ read since 8th, because it is 8th. We have tried Kings Of War and found it far to simple, we have played Warthrone and are honestly finding no answers to the tons of questions we have, I know the creator of the game is very helpful in finding answers but even then sometimes his answers leave us with more questions then we started with. We want a game with support that is on its way to being a real game, and quite frankly Warthrone isn't that game. The Warthone rulebook is terribly unorganized and that alone is almost enough to bring almost every game to a halt. More of our games lately feel like they are ending by indifferently giving up on whats happening because we got to a point where the rules have left us hanging with no answers. I sat down with the army builder for 9th and honestly before even reading any rules to the game I could make a 2500pt army list, because everything looks and feels like 8th. I think the big difference here is 9th is using 8th as a starting point, where everything else is trying to adapt 8th into their own unfinished rule formats. One big giant advantage the 9th age rule book has for experienced 8th players is that all of the rules are the same as 8th except the ones HIGHLIGHTED IN BLUE are where all the changes are. So awesome. Anyways me and Brian had a 1500 point Dwarves vs Lizardmen game today and it was fun, we had questions and were able to find answers almost immediately, the game ended only due to a time restriction but felt very close. I know this is another one of my long pointless rants but I hope I have kept this one a little easier to read. I will say this to end, 9th feels like 8th but with all of the changes and actual yes ACTUAL improvements that every gamer saw an wanted from Games Workshop.

Guarantee that the 8th edition players will start building an army and reading the rules and just feel comfortable again, just go make a list pick up the dice have a game. Jump right in and it will feel right again.

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  squalie on Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:10 pm

I had this exact same conversation with Carson tonight.

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  Kal on Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:17 pm

Try it Don, honestly. Same rules just touched up and reworded. Much more "special abilities" with just a name like "killing blow". But it seemed to flow nicely. Like 8th even in the list builsing and u can choose what weapon ure using in combat, not always stuck with that great weapon when u wana swing a hand weapon Smile

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  Kal on Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:18 pm

Me and Brian had two more games this weekend, still enjoying the rules a ton. 2500 point games Lizards vs Dwarf / Tomb King. Brian won them both, so apparently i'm gonna have to step up my game Wink. I will admit the Army Builder isn't exactly "accurate" so use it as a tool to do the math for you but i recommend when actually playing a game that you use your Army Book for the actual unit abilities / rules.

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  squalie on Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:16 pm

Ya, they definitely need to tweak the army builder. I was trying to make some Khorne lists and not all of the units are even in the builder.

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  Kal on Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:19 pm

Yeah I havent joined / read much of the forms but im going to, just so I can see whats going on.

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  squalie on Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:01 pm

Ok, so I've flipped through the rules and of course I like most of it as it's recognizably Warhammer - and there's a comfort with that. Most of the changes make sense and I'm starting to go through the armybooks. I honestly only have 2 crits: The darn army builder and the "parry" rule.

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  Kal on Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:35 pm

U mean the if u have shields u cant be hit better then 4+? I admit, without a true parry even my super shield Dwarves felt squishy. And it kind of makes an elite WS useless

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  Kal on Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:41 pm

Oh fyi, Kroxigors hit like fucking trucks now.

Str 6 tough 5 with a 4+ as and 3 attacks each. They hit on initiative 2 with WS3. Their only draw back. And they can take a full command. Im enjoying that every unit seems viable atleast. Except Slayers now only have one attack Sad

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  nathanr on Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:13 am

Oops, Andre and I missed that rule. My Elves were hitting on 3+ vs. pretty much everything and the characters were hitting on 2+. It's a pretty strong rule, not sure if it's maybe a bit too good?

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  Kal on Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:37 am

Yes i agree, it is much to strong. i prefer a 6+ Parry Save. it makes "elite" armies where you pay a premium for high WS kind of pointless, when a vampire count or a high elf swordmaster can't hit my skeletons on a better then 4+ just cuz i strapped a board to their arm.

Now i dont see anywhere it says you only get that rule if you have HW + Shield. so i suppose it still counts for spears?

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  Galadros on Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:31 pm

There is no doubt that Ninth Age is the easiest transitions from the Warhammer that we're used to, so at the expense of sounding too obvious, why not just play Warhammer? The reason I say that so bluntly is because I believe you'll find yourself in this same place again in a year (looking for a game to replace one that isn't valid anymore) if you take the Ninth Age ride.

Let's first recognise that the Ninth Age is a fan created effort which, at first thought, is attractive. The directors seem willing to engage the community and change to suit. These people are putting themselves out there without earning a salary for their efforts, however. So imagine this... After several months of toiling without pay or compensation, one of the lead guys drops off. This leaves the other few to pick up the slack or bring someone else along to take on the uncompensated responsibilities. A few more months pass and another of those guys drops off, and now we have new minds in the mixture with possibly a different direction for Ninth Age in store. Same thing will happen (with more regularity) with the army committees. How long do you think the committees will keep this up whilst retaining continuity? Things will unravel without a very strong leader to keep it afloat. I doubt that guys who got into this for the creation of a great game will have the stomach for managing feuds between people, or internet keyboard warriors that browbeat their agendas on others. Admittedly what I am describing isn't very different than GW over the history of 8 editions, but there was always one binding element... the company's loyalty to its product and the commitment to making money from it. Without that drive behind the leaders of Ninth Age, it will fade.

Secondly, this game will struggle mightily to reach anyone beyond Warhammer refugees. It is designed and contributed to by former Warhammer players, exclusively. How many non-Warhammer players will become aware of this project EVER? Every miniature game has its attrition rate, losing people to careers, families, finances, etc. To think that won't happen with Ninth Age would just be wrong, but now how are you going to replace them? It won't be enough to just show it off to your friends, and peripheral gamers that occasionally wander into the stores won't find their way to Ninth Age. Again imagine this scenario... A regular boardgamer at the Dragon's Den wants to make the move beyond Descent and Super Dungeon Explore, and heard some guys talk about Ninth Age. He asks the shop keep about it.
Dude: "Do you guys have stuff for Ninth Age?"
Shopkeep: "No, that's an online download for the rules."
D: "Huh. I guess that good if they're free. Well how about models for it?"
S: "Well, there's no models for Ninth age per say, but you can use most of these Age of Sigmar models, and Kings of War stuff in that game, I think."
D: "Oh? Are those other miniature that are similar?"
S: "Yeah, pretty similar. Here's the Age of Sigmar starter box, and this is the rulebook for Kings of War. Their rules are ALSO done as online downloads too, by the way. Then if you look here, this is the range of models for each."
D: "Geez! If those things are all right here, why would I go out of my way for this Ninth Age thing?"
S: "Exactly!"

So, after that long-winded diatribe, I want to express that I'm not putting it out like this to say that any of these games are BETTER than another. I am sharing my 8 years experience in the business of wargaming, and from the perspective of 15 years of community-building in wargaming. I really think Ninth Age is gonna feel like getting back with the old girlfriend that dumped you. It will feel right for a while, but she'll dump you again!

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  ScottRadom on Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:36 pm

FWIW I am of the same mindset as Kieran. Ninth age is just some new house rules for a game that was killed by it's own makers. I think you guys should just seriously look at Kings of War or Warthrone. But of course I have no dog in this fight.

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  Kal on Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:07 pm

Honestly we (me and Brian/Raptor tamer) did give both Kings of War and Warthrone a chance. a HARD chance, hell i might have had more games of Warthrone then i ever did of 8th. Kings of War is FUCKING BORING. Im going to sound like a broken record if i start saying why again, but same sized units with no change what so ever. yawn, I'd quit fantasy before i went back to Kings of War. Warthrone just isn't there as a company, its ONE dude, thats like... alot less dudes then 9th has. Same could be said of him disappearing, EXCEPT his rules are spanish and his company doesn't put out any models. if you boil it down "Warthrone" doesnt have any figs (like 20 characters and 2 units of rank and file that apparently he still hasn't shipped kickstarter stuff from 3 years ago) , HELL Warthrone truely only has one "true" Warthrone List, Dwarves. the rest of them are just 8th edition lists converted, by *drum roll* random guys on a forum! but like the same 3 guys have created all the converted 8th lists. Where atleast 9th has influence from ALOT more guys.

I've already got 3 people lined up to try 9th this Saturday, for the soul reason i believe i can teach it. i put the rules on my iPad and its a simple search and click. BAM everything with that rule is at my finger tips, whats "lightning reflexes" in my fingertips in 3 seconds, everytime that word comes up in the whole rule book. im just saying If a game wants to stay alive it will. ive known tons of online games that have disappeared only to have the servers picked up and hosted by individuals that dont want to see it die. Hell i played an old Westwood game called Nox for YEARS and years after Westwood shut down the official servers. As you said it would be folly to think that ANY game will stand the test of time. Simply choosing not to play out of fear that u wont have that EXACT rule set in 1 - 2 year time period is a very cowardly outlook, I dont buy a new vehicle thinking yup this will be the car i'll have when im 80. Stuff changes but i can confidently say I will be playing 9th.

Struggling to reach anyone beyond the warhammer refugees? Yeah i get that but lets be honest guys, its not like Fantasy wasnt obscure before, its like

Me: "hey i play warhammer"
Other: oh awesome 40K?
Me: "oh ... no fantasy"
Other: *blank stare*

Plus i dont see ANY Warthrone tourneys anywhere, not even in Spain where this company is based. and as far as Kings Of War is concerned yeah sure there are tourneys but im seeing more 9th Tourneys.

Not trying to dis your guys years of experience, except maybe yours a little Scott as i've never seen you roll dice. But when it comes down to "why not just play warhammer" because when a Lvl 4 Nurgle Deamon prince is soloing my army, i know its time for a change, and thats the change that 9th is trying to bring.

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  Kal on Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:19 pm

One last point,

How long did 5th / 6th / 7th edition last?

if we get that kind of millage out of 9th and end up switching in 2 years to a "Refined Warthrone" of the future or a more "Complex Kings Of War" as our 10th edition game. then how would that be any different then what GW did everytime they changed rule sets / editions?

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  Brian on Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:58 pm

Why not give 9th a try? Maybe it will be gon in a year or two, but atleast we will have fun in that year or two before it is gone. And who knows, maybe by the time 9th is gone warthrone will have hashed out thier rules a bit better and be a more popular game, or KoW will be a bit more interesting, or maybe something better will come along.

Ok I know I am throwing a lot of "maybe's" at you guys so here is my point, we might as well go with the best option until the best option goes away, or something better comes along, and if for now that option is 9th then so be it.

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  nathanr on Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:04 pm

I see both sides of this debate. I've said it before, I'd be happy to play 8th edition forever. Unfortunately, that is not a view that is shared by many. My response to Kieran's question as to why not play 8th instead of 9th age is because 8th is dead and 9th age has support behind it. Way more support than GW ever gave Warhammer. One complaint that I saw on the 9th Age forum is that they are updating the rules too often.

9th age is a crowd-designed game. It may have one person "in charge" but as far as I can tell it is being designed by committee and everyone involved is interested in a fair, fun and balanced game. Even if the man in charge were to leave, the crowd and the goals will stay the same and the game will continue to evolve and hopefully improve.

I think that Warthrone could be a better game but as with everything Avatars of War seems to do, they've reached too high and far and fallen short. They did it with their kickstarter, they've done it with pretty much every schedule they've announced for model releases and they've seemed to have done it with their rules as well.

I'm going to keep giving 9th edition a shot for now, luckily I fell into Flames of War as Warhammer was winding down so if all else fails I'll still have a fun game to play and minis to buy and paint.

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  squalie on Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:33 pm

Dang, I never thought I'd live long enough to say it but Sean actually wrote a thing I kinda agree with!

I absolutely understand where Kieran is coming from, but I feel (mostly) the same way as Sean. 8th is dead, Kings of War honestly makes me scratch my head and I truly wonder why it's so popular. The designer name attached to it and a desperate need to keep gaming in spite of GW is all I can figure out. Warthrone is my favorite, BUT - I've noticed the same thing as Sean (even talking with the creator, Felix, through email) his seeming reluctance to market the game and a curious lack of customer support in regards to his "kickstarter" figs has me suspicious. He's turning more people away than we can recruit! Sean, brings up another good point (yeesh) in that there is NO, none, zilch events based around Warthrone. Not even next door to the creator.

I can't say I've given up on Warthrone and moved to 9th, 8th, whatever, but 8th needed fixing and 9th does make an honest effort without getting too ETC'ish. I could handle the 9th parry rule a lot more than six dicing spells and Daemons princes in 8th.

It seems there a lot more 9th events than anything else out there right now.

Dunno, still feel like I have no solid idea what to do with this hobby. Every time I think I'd play 40k, I run into a bunch of players in Regina and lose the incentive for that also. Wink

For Kieran: What's the general consensus around Edmonton/Calgary for Fantasy players? I tried to log in to Paul Tings Ultimate Gamers site and it seems to be gone?

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  Mhael on Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:48 pm

I can't deny that all this flopping around has me considering selling or boxing up all my stuff and waiting for the fantasy apocalypse when all figs are returned zombified.
I will not move to 9th until i see a published book. If the underlying theme is that we are going to 9th bc of the support system they offer then i suggest waiting until the dust settles and the final revision is bound. By attempting to learn rules that are not set in stone invites the expectation to unlearn those rules. For now stick to warthrone for the enjoyment of rolling dice and keeping a cohesive community.
And if you don't chew big red gum then fck you

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  Carson on Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:22 pm

I've been really busy this last while and so havn't thrown in here. But here goes'

For a long time a knew 8th needed to be fixed, probably from the first release. 6th-7th edition was the best version of the game for tactical thinking players. 8th was designed for list builders and beer & pretzel players.

But... I played with enthusiasim because of the great guys in our community. Then GW said a big Fuck you to all its loyal customers, lets face it. I understand the business argument but as a business owner for the last 30 years, there are ways to make changes without killing off the original foundation of a company. Gws decision was lazy and face slapping to its customer base. A terrible decision that will have dire consequences for the company.

So, as a mature fantasy gamer, what to do now. I thought kings of war was the answer until I looked into it. The rules are not what I feel makes a great war game. The warthrone rules are really what I want in a game, sure they lead to questions, but really how many rules arguments and questions did we always have with GW fantasy. I can remember days and pages of online arguments over rules back in the day. Sean, they actually have more than 1 original army, at least get your facts straight. No models....really.....never really have seen this as a problem as the choice of fantasy figures these days are astounding. There is this really cool machine that lets you look at figs from all over the world and actually buy them, mind blowing right!

And there is also 9th ed. Seems cool, has some good changes, has some bad ones. don't really care if it dies off in the future. makes people all warm and tingly inside because they can pretend they are still playing warhammer.

Ill play pretty much anything as long as its with our community. I feel warthrone is the superior game but could care less as long as were rolling dice.

I decree that my games weekend of Feb.19 shall be a 9th edition weekend with FOW for those inclined. Lets use it as a test to see if Sean is or is not a fucktard. After that, lets decide on a fucking game and get playing. As I will be living amongst you infidels now I will be pestering you all for play time.

I hate big red gum, it makes my balls crawl up inside me.

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  squalie on Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:35 pm

Hm - passionate topic. Very Happy

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  Brian on Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:11 pm

We could play little wars

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  Kal on Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:48 pm

Where oh where to begin

@ Nathan - I think you will enjoy 9th and i hope we all continue playing Fantasy and i hope to get into this flames of war, i am buying models slowly. but i will admit i am still painting and buying 40k stuff more so.... Other then you guys playing Flames Of War, 40k is drawing me in more so.. but thats another whole thing im not going to get into. So i definitely dont want to lose Fantasy, 8th is dead but 9th is so close and evolving to a point where i hope every army becomes "balanced" hell im already seeing bad units being usable now and crazy good units toned down! I tried to make a crazy strong character, its not rly doable anymore. Even my VC fully kitted out ended up with a 4+/4+ save and thats mostly because of Armour of Destiny. Dont get me wrong a ton of attacks at str 5 tough 5 but not a blender lord of ol'

@ Don - Thanks? i think? i know you secretly love me like the son you never wanted and left at a bus station Smile

@ Andre - you are aware the Warthrone rules are constantly changing too right? just badly written hell they change the names for rules in some spots in the rule books then forget to change them in army books. Plus you ever try and use his page #'s in the back to find rules? good luck. Not trying to be cruel but u may be sitting in a basement alone with a stack of Warthrone rules smashing dwarves together by yourself if you are so unwilling to change. You will come around im sure  cheers

@ Carson - Come on buddy... im looking forward to trying 9th on your games day weekend but cant we have both! Play 9th AND i get to be a fucktard?  bounce My facts are a tad skewed to make a point i admit, but the warthrone armies cant stand up to the converted 8th armies and even the creator himself admitted that his armies have alot less special rules because thats the way he wants his game to go., Yes Carson this fancy computer can find many small plastic men but we can use them for 9th as well, and this also shoots Galadros's theory on not being able to find 9th models all to hell. But they dont have any more model support then 9th has is all i meant. I truly dont believe Warthrone is a superior game at all, and you ALL know how much i was pushing that game on everyone. The commanding units was a fun gimic to begin but we have all rolled badly sometimes and i feel warthrone just invites more opportunities to roll bad an honestly fuck a whole game up. ive had whole armies within 3 inch charge ranged only to have EVERY GOD DAMN UNIT IGNORE MY ORDER to charge the guys that are about to blow their faces off. Much frustrate. Rolling bad command, bad charge distance and then badly in combat. I get we are playing a dice game gentlemen but at this point we mine as well roll a dice for every inch we want our guys to walk and for every 6 they break a leg and die, why not? more chances to roll Wink .  The leadership bubbles are tiny, so anything outside of them dont listen worth shit, ruins MSU style armies so everyone ends up building death stars or minimally just bunching everything together. Most of my and Brian's games ended in giving up at being unable to find answers to rules, not disagreeing on rules just finding no answers anywhere. I think you will like the changes in 9th, im playing my Vampire Counts Wednesday, gonna see if they are still fun! I will make you all like 9th Smile even i have to drug you / use experimental brain ray thingies that i build in my basement... er um nvm that last part Smile (dont worry it only sent half the subjects into a homicidal rage)

@ Brian - Shut up Brian

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  Brian on Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:56 pm

Little Wars: A Game for Boys from twelve years of age to one hundred and fifty and for that more intelligent sort of girl who likes boys' games and books https://www.amazon.ca/dp/1491220139/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_dDiLwb5KK4SST

H.G. Wells wrote it himself

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

Post  Kal on Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:09 am

I was aware of what u were talking about as I have access to the Internet and I am not a chimp. And im pritty sure I showed u that forever ago. But anyways. Go off in your little corner and play your million year old game Smile maybe ull get polio, work in a coal mine and die when your 12... Just like the good old days. Unless that was a joke then just stfu and try and contribute to the conversation Very Happy

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Re: The 9th Age is Upon Us

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