future of our hobby

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future of our hobby

Post  Carson on Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:31 pm

So, I was having a talk with Don this morning and thought I would post this rambling.

Seems like everyone, not just in our group, is in a state of flux or indecision with "what to do". GW basically dropped a bomb and said a big fuck-you to its hard core fantasy fans and killed Warhammer Fantasy. Yes it has been replaced by Age of Sigmar but in reality, Warhammer is dead.

First, I enjoy Age of Sigmar, as a stand alone game. For me it is a low model count skirmish game. Of all the games I've played, the stand outs are the ones with very small armies.....a couple of characters, couple of monsters and about 20-30 rank and file. Very fun, tactical and fast paced. The game for me broke down when I tried to play large model counts. Its not warhammer and shouldn't be played that way. So for me its an enjoyable skirmish game, nothing more. I'll play it any time, and look forward to more games.

BUT, where does that leave me for my first love.....mass battle fantasy games. Well you might say, just play 8th. Ok, 8th is fun, even with some horrible things like terrain, over-powered magic, etc. It still is a great game that we all played and enjoyed so why not just keep playing. We'll, we can, but like all dead games eventually the lack of support, no new books, stagnant rules etc will drive down the interest in the game and games will fall off. Maybe I'm wrong but I think this will be the case. Face it, a lot of the fun of the hobby is waiting for whats new, talking about whats new, and often complaining about whats new. If everyone wants to just keep playing 8th, awesome, I'll be there for games with bells on but I'd like to suggest an alternative.

Kings of War. Yes its not GW but take a look at it. First, its written by Alessio Cavatore. Former longtime Gw writer who was largely responsible for GW's "golden" age. The rules read like warhammer 7th edition with some of the good points taken from 8th edition. It actually reads like a GW book. The first thing I thought about when reading it was of the days gone by in Saskatoon when 8-10 hard core gamers would show up every Friday night to play 6th edition warhammer at the den. It reminds me of that game and really brought some excitement to me for the hobby that I havn't felt in awhile.

Second, its a living game. Its Mantics premier game, with a brand new set of rules. It is current and supported just like GW used too. Its not a companies neglected child.

Third, with whats happened to GW, Mantic has done the smart move and begun releasing army pdfs for the exisiting warhammer armies. Hey, you have a Skaven army, Mantic is right now PLAYTESTING a skaven army for inclusion in its game. Playtesting is huge with the company and the game has been designed from player input with tournament balanced play in mind.

So, do yourself a favour, download the basic rules (you have to buy the rules to get all of them, but they have a soft cover players copy for cheap) and take a look.

I think as a collective group we need to decide what we want to do and go from their. If we decide nothing, our group will fracture and die.

This is my suggestion, please please comment and leave your thoughts

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  nathanr on Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:24 pm

I'll give it a read but here's my thoughts right now:

- our group is already fractured.
- we need a game that will bring in new players, will kings of war do that? Likely not.
- mantic minis and the army themes just don't really do it for me.

Maybe I'll change my mind once I read the rules but I'm sceptical.

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  Mhael on Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:33 pm

This looks exciting. Good find Carson. I could see myself collecting an abysmal dwarf army and some of the regular dwarf models.

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  Ironwoulf on Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:32 pm

Thanks for taking the lead. Did a quick read of the rules and army lists. Liked what I saw, I can give this a try. No loyalty to GW. Prices seem reasonable, even with abysmal exchange rate. I would be wiling to get a soft cover rule set.

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  squalie on Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:39 pm

nathanr wrote:I'll give it a read but here's my thoughts right now:

- our group is already fractured.
- we need a game that will bring in new players, will kings of war do that?  Likely not.
- mantic minis and the army themes just don't really do it for me.

Maybe I'll change my mind once I read the rules but I'm sceptical.

First off, excellent post Carson. If I didn't know any better I would swear that Aiden wrote it. You captured exactly what we talked about this morning.

Nathan, honestly give it a read. It simply "feels" like Warhammer. I promise you'll get a touch of nostalgia reading it. It's feels far more official and clean that AoS does...and you don't have to rebase figs. There's units! Point values! it's 7.5 or 8.5, whichever you prefer. And the single most important thing to remember is - it's supported and alive. And gaining massive popularity now that GW has discontinued our game.

If our group is already fractured. What are they fractured into? 8th vs AoS? At the end of the day whether you're playing 8th, AoS or Kings of War, you can use all the exact same models as you use now.

Listen guys, we can be as stubborn as we want and cling to 8th, but we friggin lost players WHILE 8TH WAS STILL BEING SUPPORTED. What do you honestly think is going to happen now? in 6 months? One year? There will be me, Carson, Nathan and Andre playing 8th. Awesome guys, but not enough for a community.

I don't know if Kings is the answer or Dean's suggestion (where the **** did THAT come from?!) but we need to think of something.

DEAN DODGE; Is there a community for the game you mentioned?

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  Carson on Sun Aug 16, 2015 3:33 pm

yup, that's one thing I forgot to mention. All of the GW figs we have we can use for Kings of War. I have mixed feelings on Mantic figs, Some are cool, a lot of them are shit compared to the bar setting of GW sculpts. I use the mantic Zombies as ghouls in my current VC army.

The rules set is what I'm interested in. Honestly, a community of dedicated gamers at the den will bring in new players, no matter what you are playing. If their was a group of guys like us playing risk at the den I'd probably buy a new set of the game.

And, Bob. great to have you post, its just what we've been missing lately....a little bit of Bob Very Happy I know you've been putting your free time into teaching, but man we you need too!


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Re: future of our hobby

Post  Ironwoulf on Sun Aug 16, 2015 3:53 pm

Don is right. Aiden did write the original post. Rules look straight forward, don't need huge units, use the same figs with no rebase-ing, rules and army lists in same book. Rule book is how much? - $25 if i read the site right, spent that much on beer in first 30 minutes at Bloodstock. Change can be good and I would sooner have a supported game rather than an orphan. To be honest until Carson (Aiden) brought this to my attention i was pretty down and ready to toss everything. Play a couple games with some of the lists and if feels good put in an order for books and have our own launch party.

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  squalie on Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:07 pm

Ironwoulf wrote:Don is right. Aiden did write the original post.  Rules look straight forward, don't need huge units, use the same figs with no rebase-ing, rules and army lists in same book. Rule book is how much? - $25 if i read the site right, spent that much on beer in first 30 minutes at Bloodstock.  Change can be good and I would sooner have a supported game rather than an orphan.  To be honest until Carson (Aiden) brought this to my attention i was pretty down and ready to toss everything.  Play a couple games with some of the lists and if feels good put in an order for books and have our own launch party.

That's another insightful post Bob. Good to see you interested in the game again.

If anyone is even close to interested, read the Kings of War rules. Hell, even watch a vid on Youtube.

Kings of War seems to replace 8th edition. Dean's game seems to replace Age of Sigmar.

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  Carson on Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:43 pm

Aiden dictated, I just pretended it was me.

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  nathanr on Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:13 pm

How much are the core rule books? We should buy a full set with our league fund.

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  Carson on Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:55 pm

The rule books are 24.99 us for the soft cover gamers book. It is the complete rules along with eleven different army lists to "get started" with. There are quite a few armies still in playtesting such as the unique warhammer armies.

I would suggest that we playtest the game with our forces and use the free sample lists from the web site. It looks really good but only some actual games will tell the tale.

As Don suggested, there are a lot of positive vibes from coming. Some actual youtube game reports and reviews are available. Im going to watch a few tonight after aidens in bed.

this is a good one from some gamers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D_vxOsXchk

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  squalie on Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:52 pm

I think we should gave a gamers pub night. Get together for supper and talk about what games, or rules, people want to play?

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  ScottRadom on Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:14 pm

squalie wrote:I think we should gave a gamers pub night.  Get together for supper and talk about what games, or rules, people want to play?

I'm in!

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  Carson on Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:40 pm

Sounds about right,


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Re: future of our hobby

Post  Mhael on Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:55 pm

I have never ordered from there. Any chance of a discount for a group order. I would take the rule book and army builder for both dwarfs and possible some figs. Anyone interested?

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  nathanr on Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:43 pm

I watched that game, I'll read the free rules this week. I'm less sceptical. I'm willing to follow this as far as it ends up going. I'm down for a pub night of discussion. I think if we do pursue this further we should get the Den on board, get them to stock some of the Mantic products and we should promote the heck out of it. Hold more regular tournaments, demo games and gaming nights/days at the Den. Make it really easy for people to get into the game. We'll be starting pretty much from scratch here and I think how we treat it now will determine our group's future. If we continue as we are now our numbers will dwindle even if kings of war is the perfect game. If we put some real effort into promoting it I think we'll see our community grow and we'll have a strong core group for many years to come.

We've got about $200 from this league and last that we can invest if we need it.

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  Carson on Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:55 am

there is no discount for volume from the company but they have a rewards point system that you can cash in for future purchases. Nathan has a good idea, lets put some effort into this if it pans out. I'm ordering the gamers softcover regardless, its cheap enough that I want the full rules to try out the game.

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nerds

Post  Ddodge on Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:30 pm

Hi- I think Tim is playing frostgrave here but not sure of others. He had a report on his blog. http://saskminigamer.blogspot.ca/2015/08/frostgrave-first-game.html


I like how you guys are thinking about the why (people and fun) you game and want to get together rather than getting all hung up on "we must play warhammer" route.

I'm going to order up a frostgrave book too. No huge interest in collecting more models for a mass combat game though.

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  Carson on Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:51 pm

so for those of you wondering if you can use your warhammer army in Kings of War here are crossover's. Some are still in playtest/development.

Empire-league of Rhordia or kingdom of men
Bretonnia-The Brotherhood
Skaven-Ratkin
Beastmen-The Herd
Tomb Kings-Empire of Dust
Lizardmen-Salamanders
Chaos Dwarfs-Abyssal dwarfs
Dwarfs-Dwarfs
High or Wood Elves-Elves
Orcs and Goblins- Goblins, Orcs
Ogre Kingdoms-Ogres
Vampire Counts-Undead
Warriors of Chaos-Varangur
Daemons-Forces of the Abyss
Dark Elves-Twilight Kin

There are also several other armies in the book or in development

forgot to post the link. You have to register, login, goto forums, scroll down to kings of war2 beta, the spreadsheet link with the armies are in the thread.


Last edited by Carson on Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  squalie on Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:59 pm

Well, I think a couple games are in order.

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  nathanr on Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:13 am

I'd be down for a game or two, first I'll have to figure out my army. I'm thinking dwarfs. I started Warhammer with dwarfs so it's only fitting that I do the same with kings of war.

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  squalie on Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:53 pm

Rick Priestley, and Alessio are generally considered to be 2 of the best designers in GW's history. Alessio left and now has created Kings of War (basically a cleaned up version of Warhammer 7th edition).

He wrote this:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=218152&d=1438666371

All players should think this way.

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  Carson on Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:38 pm

ah the good old days when I waited each month for the white dwarf to arrive, when it add great articles and battle reports. sigh

Great read though, true enough but I never thought of it that way.

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  Ironwoulf on Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:46 pm

Agreed. It's all about the people and the game, I have had as much fun losing as winning. Any idea about when we can get together for KoW, later sept?

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Re: future of our hobby

Post  Ironwoulf on Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:49 pm

been reading some forums on KoW. Been mostly positive

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Re: future of our hobby

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