First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

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First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  Lord_Stash on Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:07 am

1) Scott and Eric are full of crack.

The new army book is an improvement on the old one in ever way, save for the lack of furries. First Chaos warriors have been made playable, having 2 attacks, chaos armour and cheap weapon upgrades.

Also Marauders are alot cheaper, and marauder cav have a new rule to make it easier to chase down an enemy on the pursuit.

Chaos knights and chariots are now speacial choice as they should have been.

The feared chaos knights are now truly feared (now cause fear) and are 5 pts cheaper a model! I found that this subsidised the cost to give them the mark of nurgle (-1 to hit them with shooting, enemy units are -1WS) or give them the mark of tzeentch and the blasted standard (4+ ward save vs shooting).

The hell cannon is now a monster and handlers so is great for running beside you troups and dealing with march blockers...then GETTING IN THERE! It makes for a nice combination of chaos spawn, war machine, and hits harder in combat than a giant for the same price.

Dragon Orgres are now cheaper and speacial choices Smile

The troll king special character threatens to make ogre kingdoms armies obsolete. He allows trolls to be taken as core choices and he is only a hero selection. I really want to make a troll army since it would be a fun project.

Magic items are now better. Alot of the items were over costed before, and now some newer items are in which look really great. Also there is a new dwark lord killing power for 40 pts. Make one attack: if you hit and the target fails an initiative test (tee-hee) the model is removed from the table (with no saves).

Of course this is just for starters there is plenty more coolness in the book.

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  RickyDMMontoya on Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:54 am

It's an awful book.

There are two viable builds for the book:
Max cav - taking only Marauder cav as core and only Knights/Dragon Ogres as special.
Marauder horde - taking hundreds of infantry marauders.

Maybe, maybe going super heavy magic will also be viable, but more likely, the above two builds will need to go magic heavy anyways to compete, while going magic heavy with any other build won't make much enough of a difference.

Anyone that thinks Chaos Warriors are decent at !16! points a model is insane. In another army, one that could reasonably get them into combat, they'd be great. Lacking any viable support units outside of Hounds and Marauder Cav they are a nightmare - for the Chaos player.

In small units, they can't take a charge from anything, as any decent static combat resolution will see them off. Their M4 will also prevent small units from being reasonably used as counterchargers. Empire can get around this with detachments. Chaos can't.

In big units their sheer points cost will cripple your army.
350 points for a unit of 20 with command. That's insane. By the time this "anvil" lumbers its way anywhere near combat the rest of your "army" will have been neatly dealt with, leaving your warriors at the mercy of whatever flank and rear charges your opponent requires. Or he can simply marchblock them and let them fight air all game. Sure they'll contest a table quarter, but that's hardly a worthwhile investment for almost 20% of your army.

I think you're just caught up on statlines you'll never use. Everything in the book does have a great statline, the problem is that the book has nothing to deal with all of the Seekers of Slaanesh, Fiends of Slaanesh and Furies that will be making a beeline for your backfield on turn 1. It has nothing to deal with Carrion, tunneling Scorpions and Fast Cav chariots magic'ed behind your dudes. It has nothing to deal with Chameleon Skinks, scouting Skinks, Nike Saurus', Terradons and Salamanders. It has nothing to deal with Wraiths, Fell Bats, Dire Wolves, to say nothing about a Flying Vampire... It has nothing to deal with Waywatchers, Great Eagles or Wardancers. Flying things will be able to fly to positions on your line that you do not have line of sight to and that your Spawn simply are unable to reach even if they roll a 12. Skirmishers will be in amongst your units peppering you with shots as you turn and turn to try and catch them. Meanwhile the enemy army is closing in on your flanks.

Hounds are great redirectors, but they can't deal with any of that. Marauder cav is some great cheap fast cav, but can't really deal with any of that reliably. Spawn are too slow, and won't really beat any of that, but just hold it in place. And as long as it's in place, you're marchblocked for 2 turns anyways (not that you'll ever catch them with a Spawn). So that leaves magic. But that's what dispel dice and scrolls are for.

Also the magic items suck. No 4+ ward save? No reasonable weapons except the Axe of Khorne, no decent Enchanted Items. I can make a list of the decent magic items in the book:
Axe of Khorne
Chaos Runeshield
Armour of Damnation
Crown of Everlasting Conquest
Collar of Khorne (only good for a Tzeentch character... Rolling Eyes)
Infernal Puppet


Hell, GW must have known how likely it would be for a Chaos unit to win a combat because none of the magic Banners actually help them win fights, they just help with their break tests when they lose!

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  Lord_Stash on Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:07 am

RickyDMMontoya wrote:It's an awful book.

There are two viable builds for the book:
Max cav - taking only Marauder cav as core and only Knights/Dragon Ogres as special.
Marauder horde - taking hundreds of infantry marauders.

Maybe, maybe going super heavy magic will also be viable, but more likely, the above two builds will need to go magic heavy anyways to compete, while going magic heavy with any other build won't make much enough of a difference.

Anyone that thinks Chaos Warriors are decent at !16! points a model is insane. In another army, one that could reasonably get them into combat, they'd be great. Lacking any viable support units outside of Hounds and Marauder Cav they are a nightmare - for the Chaos player.

In small units, they can't take a charge from anything, as any decent static combat resolution will see them off. Their M4 will also prevent small units from being reasonably used as counterchargers. Empire can get around this with detachments. Chaos can't.

In big units their sheer points cost will cripple your army.
350 points for a unit of 20 with command. That's insane. By the time this "anvil" lumbers its way anywhere near combat the rest of your "army" will have been neatly dealt with, leaving your warriors at the mercy of whatever flank and rear charges your opponent requires. Or he can simply marchblock them and let them fight air all game. Sure they'll contest a table quarter, but that's hardly a worthwhile investment for almost 20% of your army.

I think you're just caught up on statlines you'll never use. Everything in the book does have a great statline, the problem is that the book has nothing to deal with all of the Seekers of Slaanesh, Fiends of Slaanesh and Furies that will be making a beeline for your backfield on turn 1. It has nothing to deal with Carrion, tunneling Scorpions and Fast Cav chariots magic'ed behind your dudes. It has nothing to deal with Chameleon Skinks, scouting Skinks, Nike Saurus', Terradons and Salamanders. It has nothing to deal with Wraiths, Fell Bats, Dire Wolves, to say nothing about a Flying Vampire... It has nothing to deal with Waywatchers, Great Eagles or Wardancers. Flying things will be able to fly to positions on your line that you do not have line of sight to and that your Spawn simply are unable to reach even if they roll a 12. Skirmishers will be in amongst your units peppering you with shots as you turn and turn to try and catch them. Meanwhile the enemy army is closing in on your flanks.

Hounds are great redirectors, but they can't deal with any of that. Marauder cav is some great cheap fast cav, but can't really deal with any of that reliably. Spawn are too slow, and won't really beat any of that, but just hold it in place. And as long as it's in place, you're marchblocked for 2 turns anyways (not that you'll ever catch them with a Spawn). So that leaves magic. But that's what dispel dice and scrolls are for.

Also the magic items suck. No 4+ ward save? No reasonable weapons except the Axe of Khorne, no decent Enchanted Items. I can make a list of the decent magic items in the book:
Axe of Khorne
Chaos Runeshield
Armour of Damnation
Crown of Everlasting Conquest
Collar of Khorne (only good for a Tzeentch character... Rolling Eyes)
Infernal Puppet


Hell, GW must have known how likely it would be for a Chaos unit to win a combat because none of the magic Banners actually help them win fights, they just help with their break tests when they lose!


Diabolic slendour
eye of tzeentch
Blood curdling roar

are decent for gifts


Chaos rune sword
Sword of change
Filth Mace
Whip of subversion
Armour of Morrslieb is the best they get for a 4+ ward save.
Blasphemous amulet
Necrotic phylactery

Are all decent magic Items

Also the doom totem has promise and the blasted standard is great against shooting. The festering shroud should be able to shave a rank or kill a knight.
The bloodskull pendant makes for a nasty wizard.


And you ideas of march block are over exagerated. Spawns will deal with march block, let alone hell cannons. marauder cav with throwing axes can deal with other things. All the while chaos knights rip through anything in their way. Most march blockers you mentioned will give anyone fits, let alone have a decent chance for march blocking for 2 turns anyway. Also chaos characters on their own in the back field can deal with alot of that chaff if need be. The only thing they fear are tomb scorpions, but there are two magic items to deal with that.
Also war dancers tend to get grounder under anything but marauders.
The daemon prince also can deal with most of that chaff and marck block things too...

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  ScottRadom on Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:12 am

Stash I look forward to watching you lose horribly!

Your observations are those of a small child who forgets that you are playing the game against a live opponent and not a brick wall. A retarded brick wall...

Marauders and marauder cav are great, it's just the Chaos warriors that suck. Horribly. When you are playing an opponent who can shoot you, march block you, magic you, and failing that flee from you how often will your boyz see combat? I'm glad you're happy, but sad for your lack of vision.

get an army pointed out and maybe we can play next friday?

p.s. I'll win!

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  ScottRadom on Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:20 am

Also you know that Ogre armies are ALREADY obsolete right?

Dwarf lord = init 4.

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new chaos

Post  Ironwoulf on Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:40 pm

The new book gives a definite flavour to the army. It is not subtle, but an iron hammer of infantry with traditional cav support.
Why is everyone hung up on blocks of 20 infantry? With warriors i will go blocks of 15(2A and chaos armor being standard options) with marauder cav and units of 10 marauders screens and flank chargers. Spawn will be good for watching flanks. I do miss furies and beast herds
Why has no one mentioned chariots, I love chariots. Too bad I can't play my 9 chariot beast/mortal army any more(kinda like nascar on a bad day)

I don't care for the forsaken, with 1W and heavy armor they will die before getting in combat.

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  RickyDMMontoya on Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:22 pm

Diabolic slendour - meh. So many things are ItP these days, it's not worth it. I guess you can metagame some Skaven or Goblins with it or something.
eye of tzeentch - crap. 25 points to use the other guys spells? If you're using this on a level 4, you almost certainly have better spells than any other wizard (as the new lores, barring Slaanesh, are quite good), and if you're using it on a level 2, you won't have the dice to make use of any decent spells. Also you can't use spells that heal anything or summon units so no Plague Wind or Wind of Undeath or Invocation for you.
Blood curdling roar - 2d6 S1. That's 2 wounds against a Skink, 1 wound against everything else.

Chaos rune sword - not good enough for it's cost. A great weapon will most often serve you better.
Sword of change - !65! points! Definitely not good enough for it's cost. You'll probably never kill anything with it, so its rules will never be used
Filth Mace - again, not worth it for its cost. A weapon should help you kill things, these pieces of junk don't.
Whip of subversion - yet another weapon that doesn't help you kill your target.
Armour of Morrslieb is the best they get for a 4+ ward save. - yeah, because Chaos characters never fight anything with magical attacks... lol!
Blasphemous amulet - you are really going to waste your talisman slot on an item that maybe does 1 wound in the magic phase?
Necrotic phylactery - another waste of the talisman slot because it's too conditional.

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  squalie on Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:52 pm

I'm not sure where I stand on the Woc thing as I don't have enough games with them, but I'll probably just defend them for nostalgic reasons.

Chaos rune sword - not good enough for it's cost. A great weapon will most often serve you better.

This is the one thing that I'm not completely sure about. I can't stand hitting last in the next round of combat and wasting a good initiative.

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  Lord_Stash on Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:37 pm

ScottRadom wrote:Stash I look forward to watching you lose horribly!

Your observations are those of a small child who forgets that you are playing the game against a live opponent and not a brick wall. A retarded brick wall...

Marauders and marauder cav are great, it's just the Chaos warriors that suck. Horribly. When you are playing an opponent who can shoot you, march block you, magic you, and failing that flee from you how often will your boyz see combat? I'm glad you're happy, but sad for your lack of vision.

get an army pointed out and maybe we can play next friday?

p.s. I'll win!

I already made my point about march blocking
My opponant gets one round of shooting before the chaos knights get him, if he wants to shoot the warriors great!
If he wants to flee from the warriors great! The fast cav can get him. But with this point you make about fleeing...why would you ever take Iron breakers with a tooled up lord???

Sure Ill fight you this Friday.

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  Lord_Stash on Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:48 pm

RickyDMMontoya wrote:Diabolic slendour - meh. So many things are ItP these days, it's not worth it. I guess you can metagame some Skaven or Goblins with it or something.
eye of tzeentch - crap. 25 points to use the other guys spells? If you're using this on a level 4, you almost certainly have better spells than any other wizard (as the new lores, barring Slaanesh, are quite good), and if you're using it on a level 2, you won't have the dice to make use of any decent spells. Also you can't use spells that heal anything or summon units so no Plague Wind or Wind of Undeath or Invocation for you.
Blood curdling roar - 2d6 S1. That's 2 wounds against a Skink, 1 wound against everything else.

Chaos rune sword - not good enough for it's cost. A great weapon will most often serve you better.
Sword of change - !65! points! Definitely not good enough for it's cost. You'll probably never kill anything with it, so its rules will never be used
Filth Mace - again, not worth it for its cost. A weapon should help you kill things, these pieces of junk don't.
Whip of subversion - yet another weapon that doesn't help you kill your target.
Armour of Morrslieb is the best they get for a 4+ ward save. - yeah, because Chaos characters never fight anything with magical attacks... lol!
Blasphemous amulet - you are really going to waste your talisman slot on an item that maybe does 1 wound in the magic phase?
Necrotic phylactery - another waste of the talisman slot because it's too conditional.

Like I said the armour of Morrslieb is the best chaos get.its good for cannon balls and dragons. If you want to fight characters take the runeshield.
Diabolic Spelndour doubles your chances of making Ld10 fail their test. Add the Doom totem banner and your opponant is taking terror tests on 8s at most.
Blood curdling roar is 20 pts. Killing a knight maes up its points.
Actually the filth mace gives you poisoned attacks, also you should cause terror the second you swing it...not bad for 35 points
Whip of subversion is only 20 points and you should be able to get a wound through as long as your target isnt a tank.

What do you actually have to take for talismans? Regeneration is all. The other two are good for their points.

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  Lord_Stash on Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:49 pm

Ironwoulf wrote:The new book gives a definite flavour to the army. It is not subtle, but an iron hammer of infantry with traditional cav support.
Why is everyone hung up on blocks of 20 infantry? With warriors i will go blocks of 15(2A and chaos armor being standard options) with marauder cav and units of 10 marauders screens and flank chargers. Spawn will be good for watching flanks. I do miss furies and beast herds
Why has no one mentioned chariots, I love chariots. Too bad I can't play my 9 chariot beast/mortal army any more(kinda like nascar on a bad day)

I don't care for the forsaken, with 1W and heavy armor they will die before getting in combat.

You can take the 8 chariot army since chariots bought for characters don't count as special choices Wink

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  Carson on Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:25 pm

I've looked at the new book. It's totally viable. Every book has some good and some bad magic items. The last Dark Elf book had the worst list of magic items and the army played just fine. Magic items are not the be all and end all of armies kids.

I think you guys are assuming a chaos army will consist only of lumbering chaos warriors. If you want to field that fine but don't expect to win many games. A fully fleshed out roster will play just fine and in fact I think will suprise alot of you nay sayers. I have played a Chaos army consisting only of warriors and knights under the old book and actually had a winning record and went to the league finals.....these units I would argue were alot worse under the old book. I see a good Chaos army consisting of lots of marauders, foot and cav, backed up by a couple of heavy hitters. The argument that the warriors will never see combat is a valid point but do you think the army will consist only of 1 or 2 units of warriors. I would have to argue that I've played and watched alot of games and I can't remember very many times when chaos units did not make it into combat. Sure, gunlines could cause them no end of grief but don't they do that to any army. I know it was frustrating some times fighting Scotts Dwarfs with my attack oriented dark elfs......and they are the most manouverable army in the game.

There has been alot of talk about march blockers but lets remember that armies that field marchblockers eventaully want to get into combat themselves. I think a deamon army...other than thzeech....still needs to fight to win the game.

Your going to see much larger model count armies for chaos now all of which have impressive stat lines or are cheap enough points wise not to matter.
I'm actually excitied about putting one together but I say that about any army...other than the embarressment that is Daemons!

I could live to eat my words but doubt it.

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  nathanr on Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:27 pm

I think it is kinda funny that their first White Dwarf battle report is against Dwarfs. Way to play to your strengths! No march-blocking to speak of and while dwarf infantry is hard, it is not quite up to the task against the chaos, especially with no ironbreakers (he takes slayers including a Dragon AND Daemon slayer). The only thing the dwarfs have going for them is shooting and the guy picks a gyrocopter, flame cannon AND organ gun! All three of those are much better suited to killing low-toughness enemies, not heavily armored chaos knights/warriors. Cannons and bolt throwers would have done much better! Usually the initial white dwarf battle report gives me an idea as to what the army is all about but in this case it is really quite useless.

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  ScottRadom on Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:35 pm

Yep, it was an awful read start to finish. You're bang on about a crappy dwarf list. I think the army that will have the LEAST problem dealing with Chaos is the dwarfs. Dwarfs can outlast marauders in HtH and dwarf shooting is EVEN better when there's no counter-battery fire. Ah Chaos....

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  RickyDMMontoya on Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:53 pm

From Tuatha Dar on Warhammer.org.uk (with whom I agree with 50% - I like special characters...).
I just got the shiny new WD (US Issue 346), and figured I'd share a few tidbits with our listening audience.

First off, the mag was quite a bargain at only $8.00 (US). Since I only cared about the Fantasy portion of the magazine, and therefore 2/3s of it was completely useless to me, I'll describe what I got for my lunch money (since I could have eaten at McDonald's and had change to spare for the price).:

Besides the shiny pictures I can see for free on GW's website, I found:

An article about the new Chaos Warriors where I learned that:

1) Chaos Warriors are undoubtedly the best Core infantry unit in the game

2) A marked Chaos Warrior unit, even though it's coming in at around 350-400 points is an unstoppable force (I assume this means IF they ever get into combat).

3) A whole army clad in Chaos armour would be quite small, but pack one hell of a punch.

So hey, that's all good info.

So on to the battle report. I expect the Chaos Warriors (taken by Phil Kelly) will really have their hands full with playing against Allesio. I figure a real clinic where Allesio might take his Brettonians to demonstrate how the Warriors will have to deal with fast moving, hard hitting cavalry, or his Skaven, where the CWs will have to deal with lots of hard hitting shooting, fast infantry, and lots of troops. Or maybe even the new Dark Elves, where the CWs will have to deal with lots of magic, very fast, maneuverable troops. Heck even possibly a real test, Wood Elves with their quick lateral speed and masterful use of terrain. With any of these choices, the battle report would show how the studio's internal playtesters developed the list to deal with skirmishers, hard hitting cavalry or flyers, I can't wait...

...But no, Allesio decided to test the CWs against that fast, skirmishing army known as...Dwarfs. Hmmm.

Well at least we have these pearls of wisdom from the report:

Allesio: The obvious thing I can do is pick as many guns today to obliterate the Chaos army at range before those terrifying combat monsters can lay their hands on me...

Oh good, the battle report will show us how the studio developed the WoC army to take on guns lines, EXCELLENT, they thought of this.

Then...

Allesio: However, this will likely lead to a very two-dimensional game one that I've seen many times before - Chaos runs at the guns and then either a) Chaos is shot to pieces or b) Chaos reaches the gun line with reasonable numbers and cuts the enemy army to pieces. This time, I'll try something completely different - I'll go for balance!

Wh...?
So the answer for WoC to deal with Gun lines is for...the other guy to not play gun lines. Got it, I'll use that in my next tournament. But hey, at least they recognize the problem right? Um...right? That means in 5 years, they might fix it. I can wait, no problem.

Well let's see what Phil is doing just in case he does have to deal with a static Dwarven army:

Phil: I have another ace up my sleeve in the form of Wulfrik the Wanderer. Wulfrik is a fantastic asset when facing an enemy gun line, as with a bit of luck he can turn up behind enemy lines on the first turn...

So Phil's solution is: Use a Special Character and pray.

Okay, I can use this as well. Assuming that I like to use SCs (I don't) and my opponent/tournament allows them. Plus I DO know how to pray, so I'm half-way there.

Well let's see how the game went, a few quotes:

Whereas Chaos ignored the Shooting phase, the Dwarfs bypassed the magic phase...

Sounds exciting so far with both armies completely ignoring entire phases of their turns.

The Cannon was the first to speak. Allesio aimed it at the Chaos Warriors...killing three despite them having a 6+ Ward Save from the Mark of Tzeentch.

Yeah, that just sucks when you fail something as robust and reliable as a 6+ Ward Save. Very bad luck there.

Etc., etc., the rest I just kinda skimmed to be honest. Oh and guess who won?

I think I'll just go to McDonald's next time and maybe just play Dark Elves.

Tuatha

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  ScottRadom on Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:12 pm

Yeah, that about sums it up for me. Although Special Characters HAVE grown on me. I just think it's been a hard stigma to erase from the days of "Opponents permission" style special characters to army comp scores. If there is only one of those special characters in the entirety of the warhammer world, how do I give my opponent full marks for army comp when the scores usually say something like "This army was a great representation of the army book in general". It usually means to me that a generalization of an army should NOT include something as shiny and unique as a special character.

Though I have softened as I say. Plus last night I got to use Skarsnik againt a dwarf army! Booyah! Sure he almost got his ass handed to him by a bare naked dwarf lord but it was FUN!

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  Carson on Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:34 pm

Yeah, WD has been a real let down for awhile now. Would be really nice to have 2 average joes fight it out with real world lists.... not the crap that the corporate boys put together.

And yes, as it has always been, chaos has to overcome the march across the table.....are there ways to accomplish it....of course.

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  Lord_Stash on Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:09 pm

I can't believe you guys are still surprised white dwarf is crap. I gave up on it 5 years ago...

As far as chaos vs dwarves go...I wiped Scotts army off the table to a man before Twisted Evil

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  ScottRadom on Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:11 pm

Sure, once. How would you say your overall record vs Dwarfs would rate?

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  Lord_Stash on Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:15 pm

ScottRadom wrote:Sure, once. How would you say your overall record vs Dwarfs would rate?

With chaos? it was shaky at the start, but I believe we are about even.

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  ScottRadom on Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:12 pm

Lord_Stash wrote:
ScottRadom wrote:Sure, once. How would you say your overall record vs Dwarfs would rate?

With chaos? it was shaky at the start, but I believe we are about even.

You are of course mistaken. Even taking into account youre SoC Tzeentch games. I haven't ru ndwarfs in a long while, we'll see how they fare next league.

Of course that's just MY version of events.

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  Lord_Stash on Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:04 am

ScottRadom wrote:
Lord_Stash wrote:
ScottRadom wrote:Sure, once. How would you say your overall record vs Dwarfs would rate?

With chaos? it was shaky at the start, but I believe we are about even.

You are of course mistaken. Even taking into account youre SoC Tzeentch games. I haven't ru ndwarfs in a long while, we'll see how they fare next league.

Of course that's just MY version of events.

I was considering just mortals...I thought I might be a few games up on you instead of even, but I wasn't sure. My mistake.

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  ScottRadom on Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:55 am

You're way up vs Orcs, but way down vs dwarfs.

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  Lord_Stash on Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:25 am

ScottRadom wrote:You're way up vs Orcs, but way down vs dwarfs.

Dissagree Razz

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

Post  ScottRadom on Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:03 am

You think you're down vs Orcs as well?

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Re: First Impressions of the new Chaos army book.

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