Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

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Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  nathanr on Fri May 01, 2015 10:25 am

First Round:
Dom vs Dwayne
Nathan vs Justin

Second Round:
Don vs Winner of Nathan vs Justin

Final Round:
Winner of Dom vs Dwayne vs Winner of Second Round

Are all of you available next Saturday (May 9)? If the Den is busy I could host the playoffs, I can easily fit 2 tables downstairs or in the garage or even on the deck if it's nice. If everyone is available and Don and Justin are willing to make the trip up here on Saturday we could get the playoffs done in one day which would be awesome.

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  squalie on Fri May 01, 2015 11:38 am

I'll be there anyways!

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  nathanr on Fri May 01, 2015 2:37 pm

Great!

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  blizzard435 on Fri May 01, 2015 10:10 pm

I should be available. Barring something stupid happening at work! (can't happen three weekends in a row right?)

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  nathanr on Fri May 01, 2015 10:40 pm

Sounds good.

Justin has told me that he's likely not going to be able to make it as he's working. I'm not sure what we should do about that. I had toyed with the idea of making a road trip to Moose Jaw to play our game. If he won he could play Don in Moose Jaw but then would still likely not have the time to make a trip up to Saskatoon for the finals against either Dom or Dwayne.

If Justin were to give up his playoff spot, then I would move into his 2nd best average playoff spot and Andre would get my highest points spot. Andre has not paid his league fees so he is ineligible for the playoffs so the next highest would be Carson.

Thoughts?

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  squalie on Sat May 02, 2015 10:29 am

I think Andre's good for the money - I'll vouch for him. Very Happy

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  nathanr on Mon May 04, 2015 10:55 am

I agree that he's good for it, I think everyone who didn't pay is likely good for the money. I was just trying to make an example of Andre.

Justin, I'm going to leave it in your hands. If you want to keep your playoff spot we can delay the playoffs and possibly do them in June at Garagecon. I'd prefer to get them done sooner than that if at all possible. If everyone else is available this Saturday I'd like to go ahead and get them done but that would require you to give up your playoff spot.

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  nathanr on Mon May 04, 2015 8:40 pm

With the playoffs here I think we should discuss the potential balance issues that may arise from allowing end times lists in the playoffs. I think we can all agree that Warhammer armies aren't necessarily the most balanced to begin with and the end times lists kinda ramp up the power levels beyond what can be achieved in non-end times books. With 2 chaos legion armies qualified for playoffs I think we at least have to have the conversation.

I'm fairly indifferent but I figure there may be opinions both ways.

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  squalie on Tue May 05, 2015 6:42 am

I'm curious as to the opinions also, as I didn't see much advantage taken with end times lists. But that could just be me.....

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  Kuyp on Tue May 05, 2015 9:11 am

I will pipe up, since I mentioned it to Nathan. I'm fine with some of the armies joining together I'm fine with undead being able to march ( everyone else can so it doesn't change much ). Three things make this stupid in order of stupidness
1. Chaos table
2. 50 % lords and heros
3. Magic rules
And with honerable mention some of the new units and characters.

I don't think they should be allowed because there is no half way, either you are playing it or your not.

If we are my O&G playoff list may not even contain much O&G ( thanks archon )

My two cents

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  nathanr on Tue May 05, 2015 9:36 am

I'd say the biggest potential balance issue is the special characters. Nagash or Glotkin or Karl Franz Ascendant etc. are all a bit much for a balanced, competitive game. I honestly don't mind the 50% lords thing except when it is used for dumb things like 2 daemon princes or the big boosted special characters. If you want a fighty lord and a magicky lord I don't see an issue. I don't know how to enforce that distinction though. I think everyone involved in these playoffs would like to win and get their name on the trophy so I'm not about to tell you to bring a soft list.

Like I said before, I don't really have a dog in this fight. I'm bringing my vanilla high elves, the exact same list as I've run all league long (except for the time I forgot my phoenix and had to sub in a chariot instead). Dwayne should know it well, he was 2/1 against it this league Wink .

I agree with Dom when he says that it should be all or nothing and maybe that answers the question for us. If we do all then that includes End Times: Archaon which would mean that everyone could just bring 2500 points of whatever they wanted. While that might work for a pick-up game, I don't think we want to go down that road for the playoffs.

I'm interested in hearing other people's opinions too, even if you're not in the playoffs.

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  nathanr on Tue May 05, 2015 10:49 am

Justin has conceded his playoff spot. I'm going to suggest that we go ahead with 4 playoff competitors (myself, Don, Dom and Dwayne) as Andre has informed me that he's working and we already made fun of Carson for not being in the playoffs Embarassed . Besides, I doubt if anyone would want to make the playoffs as the THIRD alternate. That said, if Carson wanted to show up I wouldn't throw him out.

If we can get a consensus on this end times list issue we should be good to go ahead and play these games and get the league over and done with this weekend.

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  The Apothecary on Tue May 05, 2015 3:43 pm

Cmon Carson, step up and Cinderella story these playoffs.

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  squalie on Tue May 05, 2015 10:44 pm

So, Justin can't even post here? Some peoples kids....

Anyways, yes, Carson should belly up to the bar - buck tooth and all and claim the abandoned spot.

I had a big "meh" towards End Times lists and never really saw anything that bad, except maybe Glotkin, which I never played against. Although Nathans comment about the Archaon book, which I never bought, completely changed my opinion on this. I was basing my view of the end times from my Tomb Kings and really enjoyed the perks for my TK. My Chaos was another thing entirely as I just felt weird after making a few (very fun) lists I just couldn't shake the problem I had with the reign of chaos table not affecting my dudes. It just seemed a cheap and free spell casting phase and I didn't like it so sold all the extra stuff and went back to straight daemons. Voila! Done.

I have no use for end times and have pretty much moved "back" to 8th edition.

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  Kuyp on Tue May 05, 2015 10:58 pm

I like just the rules for 8th as seen in the book. I think with the impending 9th eddition of the game I just want to play what we all know rather then some of the lazy basterdized rules that are the end times.

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  nathanr on Tue May 05, 2015 11:49 pm

I'd like to hear Dwayne's opinion on this before we make the decision one way or the other. Also, if Carson is going to take his shot at the title I'd like to hear his opinion too.

And if anyone else would like to weigh in I'd appreciate your comments as well.

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  blizzard435 on Wed May 06, 2015 1:40 am

Sorry, I had a post earlier but apparently it got lost in the Aether. That said, incoming wall of text!

First off, I've only played 8th Edition and I've enjoyed the game. Just so happened that the two armies I started with (VC and Chaos) were the first two legion armies (and I started to delve into wood elves only to have them legion up too!). The legions books have some interesting rules that can be fun but are optional; similar to the storm of magic rules that were released a while back. The only rules that really are now forced (FAQ'ed) into the main rules from the whole end times are the Lore of Undeath and 50% lord and heroes.

The legions lists are meant to be a way to sell models from ranges that might not be seeing good sales (tomb kings, beast men, etc). They released some rules and made the story fit. Then they hit their stride and with the Archaon book just completely threw everything out the window with the unbound armies lists.

I like the legions. I like the tool kits and versatility that they offer. Over all, do I really care if I'm playing warriors of chaos or legions of chaos? not really. I like lore of beasts, so I take a beast shaman with my warriors. I'm not big on Daemons and don't want to invest in them. I've got 3 Beastmen models to my name ( a doombull and two shamans) and have only used one. As for the reign of chaos table, I've forgotten about it more times that I've used it. I like the undead legion. I got tired of running Vampire counts and moved over to playing my Warriors which were more fun for me. The undead legions really made me want to go back and play around with some of the Tomb King options to round out the army. Did the legion army break the game? Not really. Did it increase my interest in an army that I pretty much had packed up? Absolutely! I do like that Beastmen can get marks of chaos in the Legion rules and I do like the undead legion combining the undead armies under one banner (something I didn't realize wasn't a thing when I started the game).

New rules in the books for models (both units and special characters) are a different story. The Special characters are, in many cases, over powered and over priced (both points and money wise). Many really fit well in the story scenarios but not so much in competitive play. Nagash is a beast! KFA, Glottkin and Malakith are crazy powerful. I have a glottkin and a Mortarch. The Glottkin is a fun model but really won't see a gaming table much. The Mortarch will most likely be used as a Vampire on an Abyssal Terror more than the named character. Named characters from some of the other army books can be just as crazy though; Mannfred, Karl Franz (not ascendant), Malakith are all available in non-end times and can be really powerful.

The other models in the range I think are fine. The Morghasts, storm fiends and blightkings are nice looking models and have rules that fit into non legion lists. While I haven't had the pleasure of facing down a Skaven list with Storm fiends yet, I think they have a place in the game and shouldn't be blanket banned with everything else.

Each book offers different rules and different concepts. Some are fun and some really only fit in the story scenarios. I don't like Lore of undeath and rules like the chaos ascendant rules really shine in scenarios but are not really meant to be considered in a tournament or ladder match. Then there is Khaine magic where the rules state that if one person wants to play it in the game, then the rules are in affect. That is utter bullshit!

Overall, I want to have fun with the hobby. If people don't want to play because some of the rules aren't fun for them, then discuss those rules before hand. Pretty much all special characters are over priced but if people want to use them in a game, decide that when arranging to play (same with points and scenarios etc. This is a hobby and a game. It's meant to be fun. I know I would be frustrated if all I played against were Nagashs, Glottkins and KFAs. But, the same frustration can happen with any cheese list (Double nurgle princes, Wood elf avoidance lists, etc.)

TL:DR version: End times are excessive! The Archeon book was a disappointment! Khaine magic is silly! I do like the legions but can appreciate why people don't want deal with Chaos legion cheese. The elf legion really just dilutes what makes each elf army special and the everchosen grand legion is just an excuse never to be invited out gaming ever again. I haven't really given the Formation rules a good look at though.

And with all of that said, I was considering choosing undead legions as my army for the next league. Mostly because I have my VC army painted and I'm going to be working on a bunch of Tomb Kings over the next couple months. So, full disclosure on my bias!





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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  nathanr on Wed May 06, 2015 7:35 am

Alright, thank you for weighing in. With all that said, let's go with no end times rules for the playoffs. And when I say no end times I mean pre-end times rules so 25% lords, 25% heroes and no lore of undeath.

Both Don and Dwayne will have to state what army they will be bringing to the playoffs, I'm going to go ahead and guess Dwayne will bring Warriors of Chaos and Don will bring Daemons but if I'm wrong please correct me.

Not sure what the next league will do with 9th edition landing right in the middle but we'll sort that out when we get there.

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  blizzard435 on Wed May 06, 2015 9:04 am

I will be bringing our Warriors.

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  nathanr on Wed May 06, 2015 6:13 pm

So signs just went up in my neighbourhood that street sweeping will be happening on Saturday. That means I will have a maximum of 2 parking spots available. I can pick anyone up Saturday morning if you want and then drive you home afterwards.

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  squalie on Wed May 06, 2015 9:43 pm

I will be straight Daemons from now on. I have sold all my non Daemon models.

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  Kuyp on Thu May 07, 2015 8:48 am

nathanr wrote:So signs just went up in my neighbourhood that street sweeping will be happening on Saturday.  That means I will have a maximum of 2 parking spots available.  I can pick anyone up Saturday morning if you want and then drive you home afterwards.

Hey Nathan i can meet you at the shooing center that's close to you if you like. then you don't have to drive all the way across the city

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  nathanr on Thu May 07, 2015 11:15 am

shooing center? I'm guessing that was a typo but I'm sure it will work. Let me know where it is.

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  Kuyp on Thu May 07, 2015 12:30 pm

Just like the one in airindale or whatever. Like by the time and what not

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

Post  nathanr on Thu May 07, 2015 2:12 pm

Sure, if you want to park at the Tim Hortons on Attridge just West of McCormund I'll pick you up there.

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Re: Winter/Spring 2014/15 League Playoffs

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