A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

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A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  squalie on Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:16 pm

Have a seat before reading....

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?404065-Warhammer-And-Now-For-Something-Completely-Different

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  Druchi on Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:38 pm

If this is in fact true, I am not going to be buying anymore Fantasy models. I honestly don't like what I read there. End times seemed fun, but if they are killing their flag ship range (contrary to what may be the norm, I actually view Fantasy, not 40k, as the GW flagship) then I really don't know what to say.

Is Fantasy really in decline that they would murder one of their core games into the ground?


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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  squalie on Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:54 pm

I'm surprisingly unmoved about the whole thing. It's a win-win for me. If 9th is awesome, then I move with it - if not, then I stay (and hopefully others) in 8th.

8th edition has been the most fun for me so far, no reason to move on unless 9th is better.

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  Carson on Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:33 pm

I honestly don't enjoy what they are doing with the end times army books. End times lists are WAY over -powered compared to regular lists and with the combination of armies I can see the reduction to 6 factions as believable.

Time will tell of course, but if 9th is a continuation of the end-times then I'd be happy playing 8th.

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:29 am

Meh. I hope the terrain is haunted and shit in the new ed. too.

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  Kal on Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:46 am

Butt... but.... BUT! I just started playing ?! Why for they go and fuck it all up? sounds like its turning into a trading card game, where u have to rotate sets / figs. and they release all this old time stuff just to have it useless right away? fuck that noise batcat. I think we should all write a strongly worded letter to GW please remember to add your own feces in the letter. Meh if its good ill move with it too, im kinda doubting this so i have no issues with staying with 8th, we got a good enough group of dudes, and im sure there are other like minded individuals out there.

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  nathanr on Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:31 am

Wow, hmm. I agree with Don that I've enjoyed playing in 8th edition more than any previous editions. These rumours make me nervous that all my lovingly painted armies are going to be invalid in 9th but if so, I'll continue to play 8th. Fantasy has seen a huge resurgance in popularity with the End Times but that's just because GW is actually giving us some love instead of releasing Space Marine Varient IV Mk 2 shoulderpads and Tyranid Knobgorgers all the time for the 40K nerds. Hopefully GW doesn't interpret the boost in sales as meaning that they're moving in the right direction for Fantasy. I'm not sure that they would survive the backlash from that many pissed-off customers.

I'll wait and see what actually comes before I cast any more judgement though. Maybe it just sounds worse than it will really be.

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:49 pm

I'm actually looking forward to a reboot of fantasy. I've made it known how I feel about 8th (I think it sucks a ton of ass FYI) and welcome ANY new ruleset. Don't think it could be worse. I've always loved the story and kinda having a tough time visualizing what it could look like if they pull the plug on all that.

As far as 6 core armies with supplemental units all over the place, I think I could live with that. And lord knows it might help any company thinking of actually stocking Warhammer. Could you imagine being a retailer and trying to stock stuff for Fantasy and 40k right now? Yikes.

With the possible changes coming up it's hard for me to justify carrying through on this nurgle army. I'd hate to pound through all my core stuff just to find out now they go on 32mm round bases. And having plunked a couple hundred on some end times special characters I don't like the idea of not being able to use them in a 9th ed environment.

Overall I'd put my needle at around a 6 and a half with 1 being pessimistic and 10 being optimistic.

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  Galadros on Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:48 pm

Oh, the internet (sigh). Much like the media in the USA fear-mongering and sensationalism always gets more viewers. Let's see if I can quell some fears here.

I'm going to approach this from the perspective of a fellow that has been involved with Warhammer since 1995, and was employed by GW for 7 years. Let's start with a bit of history. GW began with Warhammer in 1975 as a way to conduct small battles in role-playing games. Armies were 30-50 models with your RPG heroes leading them. This evolved into its own stand-alone game a few years later as 2nd edition Warhammer. At this time, there were 6 armies, I think. You could ally freely, and even include undead and chaos minions. Army composition and balance was nearly non-existent otherwise. 3rd edition introduced the idea of troop categorization and percentages for the first time. That carried through 4th, until 5th edition changed it to a system of 'slots' requiring a minimal number of core choices, and a restricted number of heroes and special choices, etc. This was the era known as "Hero-Hammer", as you could spend 100 points each on minimal core units, then 1000 points on two Lords.
I want to point out that at the change-over to 5th edition, the upheaval was massive! The composition of armies changed so greatly that nerd-rage ran amock! People cried out that GW were a bunch of bastards trying to destoy the lives of every hobbyist that ever existed. And I know this first hand, as I worked for GW at the time. This sounds like hyperbole, but it sounds the same as what we're hearing lately too.
Despite that, GW grew to it's height of power with success after success. The only major changes in Warhammer involved the way magic worked. No biggie. Great models, frequent releases, advances in plastic casting, massive retail expansion, new players in countries around the world. Golden times! Throughout the next two editions, the hobby grew like never before. This is fact.
When 8th edition struck forth, massive nerd-rage happened again, largely because they changed back to a percentage-based army composition. This wasn't the only change, of course, but other complaints turned out to be petty. (I for one, thought random charge distance was a bag of nonsense.) Many used this as an excuse to drop Warhammer for something else. Most who have stayed agree that it IS the best edition.

So now this brings us to 2015, the 30th anniversary of Warhammer. Can you think of any other miniature games that have been around as long? It has evolved along the way. So, I'm not going to address the conjecture of combined armies, change in composition, wild magic phases, or usefulness of your existing collection. It has all happened before, and Warhammer has progressed. It has improved and refined itself to a state where it has more players now that ever before. Warhammer is not dying. Warhammer is not going away. Rather, Warhammer is evolving again. Let's put an end to this sky is falling speculation by NOT talking about it anymore until it needs to be talked about. When 9th edition becomes a reality, and you play some games of Warhammer, then let's talk about it again. Until then, keep painting models and playing the game you love. Enjoy it as much as you have for however long you have been involved.

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  Kuyp on Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:36 pm

I think the big thing for me is this edition has been so much fun i dont really want it to end or change just yet. Sure games HAVE gottena bit stale just because of the lack of sescenarios and most people's little to no interest in making the game ours and creating new and interesting rules and what not.

Tactically it would be nice for more then just running blocks of troops at eachother in hope you come out on top but hey its still fun. Will 9th edition bring the kind of change im looking for ? Probably not but i will just wait to see. Big thing i dont like, only 6 armies? I like lots of options

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  Kal on Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:23 pm

Why must you be the voice of reason Galadros? What you say makes sense i suppose. I havent been playing that long, idk how long after 8th came out that i started. But im with Dom on the fact i don't want this game to end or change yet. Im just getting into and having fun with 8th, finally getting diversified armies with more then one list. I think more scenarios would make this game funner, also playing different point values of games. The last game i had was Watchtower and altho that is a very simple game type IF i had been paying more attention and focusing on the objectives instead of killing it could have completely changed the way i looked at the game tactically. It was a nice change from battle line. I think IF we all hate 9th and stick with 8th we should try different stuff. Different game types, create our own scenarios. Maybe limit unit costs? idk im rambling again. Very Happy

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  ScottRadom on Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:58 pm

Kieran my chief concern is a total reboot of the fluff. I love the warhammer world much like I loved Star Wars. The Georgie thought he'd just evolve the story line a little and now we've got mitichlorians. Forever. No way to unlearn that.

I ask you if you think hip hop music has evolved into a better state of affairs then it was in the late 80's and 90's? Have you traded in your cool J and Naughty by Nature for Jay-Z?

Rules, mini's all that have changed all down the line. I like what I hear about some potential rule changes I just don't want to power through 50 core infantry mini's with custom sculpted bases only to find out they now legally belong on 32mm bases that might be round. So I think it's only prudent that I hold off until I see what falls out when the tree get's shook in 9th ed.

I'm really looking forward to a new ruleset and can't wait to see new mini's. God how'd Id love for them to do an update on the Orc infantry box. It's still a cool set but with what most sets are like now I think they could really knock it outta the park! Then again I think the plaguebearer mini's are ungood and feel really "lazy" as a kit. No texture at all on the skin for the plaguebearers! Every single one as smooth as glass with the odd boil thrown in. Missed opportunity on that kit for sure.

So mark me down as an interested party with guarded optimism.


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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  Khoutare on Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:02 am

I have been hearing about these rumors for 9th for a couple weeks now and I have flip flopped on them so much. one side welcomes the change up of rules and if it is going towards more of a fantasy 40k squad based game play then it may be an interesting game to play as a break from 8th. only having to paint up 10 models per unite instead of 36 maybe a welcomed change of pace the games maybe shorter as well. I would probably continue with both, since I love the huge model count of 8th and the idea of two huge army's going at it. the other side of me does not like the rumors of lizard men, dwarves, and ogres, all being squatted, the elves, chaos, and undead all being lumped into single armies respectively. reducing the armies to only 6 seems like it will really water down the experience and diversity. as well the idea of limited run models leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and the reduction of some core units also makes me worried. in the end though I can't change anything that will happen and will just wait and see what GW comes out with. if I like the models and new rules Ill play it if not I wont. it is not the death of fantasy just a change.

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  The Apothecary on Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:43 am

I think the major thing I am concerned about is having to restart from scratch if they cut my armies out. With the possibility of only 6 armies what is to happen to the armies that don't make the cut. The 6 armies will most likely be Chaos,Elves,Fantasy Marines,Undead,Orcs,and something else? What happens to the rest? I understand you not wanting people to get the torches ready JUST yet Galadros, however IF and WHEN people are told that their armies do not EXIST anymore its going to be a black day indeed. Now I know its not the first time they have removed things (Kislev,Dogs of War just to name a few) but we are talking what could be a solid 3-4 armies that don't have any kind of home in the mixing game. If they are mashing armies together where do Ogres stand? Skaven and Lizardmen? I can accept that sure Ogres can go with OnG's and Dwarves can hang out with the humans... but what becomes of Lizards and Rats? Now I have read nothing from the End Times, I only know what I have been told so I am not sure if they have already addressed this issue in some way other than just saying " Whoops looks like Nagrash just killed all the ogres so no more Ogre Kingdoms, Oops and now hes killed all the Skaven so I guess they don't exist anymore" and if that is how GW wants to go forward then I don't think I could give them my business in in the future. That is just kicking dirt in the faces of people who loved those armies and are now being told "they don't fit in with our new direction". As we get closer to 9th release I hope that GW gives us at least a little information on what the plan is. Round bases don't bother me nearly as much as the though of having to pack an army up and putting it in the attic only to bring it out when another person is in the mood for a trip down memory lane. So far all the rule changes from End Times have been thumbs up from me. I LOVE the new magic phase concept. It helps address problems people have been complaining about and makes the magic phase truly feel like it is a solid game winning phase without having to resort to 6 dicing your ultimate spell turn after turn. Plus as a Tzeentch player the idea of 4d6 power dice with the ability to spam spells is just fantastic.

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  Khoutare on Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:53 am

from what I was reading ogres and dwarves become mercenary type forces within a unified human army, tomb kings and vampire counts just become general undead, beastmen WoC and Chaos deamons all work together for general all purpose chaos, high - dark - wood elves, lizard men go to space and peace out never to be seen again, orcs and goblins be all green and menacing and stompy, and skaven continue to plot the destruction of the "world" or land island chunks floating in the warp. but in the end this is all hear say and conjecture, Ill believe it when I see it. for now Ill continue painting my dwarves and enjoying the lore as is. nothing can wipe out dwarves not even skaven trying to ram a moon made of warpstone into the planet.

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  squalie on Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:48 am

I find it very hard to believe that Lizards will disappear completely. There are armies selling much worse than Lizards that they could have easily deleted through a storyline. Interestingly enough, I don't even play Lizardmen and I would be enraged by this.

There was an interesting post about all the End Times box sets for each army and the fact that the Lizardmen box was the only one that didn't have any actual Lizardmen in it - only Lizardmen Monsters.

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  The Apothecary on Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:19 pm

Khoutare wrote:from what I was reading ogres and dwarves become mercenary type forces within a unified human army

So what, the entire ogre kingdom is destroyed save a handful of Maneaters? I will be quite upset if Ogres become nothing more than Fantasy Ogryn. Sad



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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  Freezingoon on Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:42 pm

So I have something of a theory about the lizardmen flying off in their stoneage spaceship. It's really just going to be the slann, I mean they are the only ones who were brought to the world by the old ones, every other species was adapted from life already on the planet. With their masters gone, the saurus instinctively follow the orders of the skinks, and skinks in the fluff tend to go a little overboard with their blood sacrifices whenever the local mage priest has been napping for too long.

This is just a wild theory based off the new five faction army scheme presented, but what if the lizardmen become corrupted by their long, inadvertent worship of khorne and get wrapped into the beastmen part of the chaos faction. It even makes some sense to me with the current state of the fluff. There is no possible way for the lizardmen to survive the skaven without the slann, they kind of lack the monster smiting super heros other factions have. So unless Kroq gar is there to fight every verminlord in lustria something is going to have to save them. Coincidentally an enormous horde of khorne worshiping barbarians is rampaging just along the northern border of Lustria.

A crazy idea I know, and its mostly based off that new faction format for 9th

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  The Apothecary on Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:41 am

OK so after reading this website http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_End_Times, I am starting to believe this "Holy Human Army" is Brettonians 2.0

It also sounds like ogres will in fact join Orcs n Goblins, and Skaven are going to become the Tyranids of the Fantasy world. Should be an interesting 5th book.

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  nathanr on Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:24 am

Looks like that page has been removed.

I like the lizardman theory.

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  squalie on Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:31 pm

I'm terrified that the new "Holy" armoured warriors are Bretonnians. I would start that in a second.

I also read, and am starting to believe, that "Warhammer" will not actually have a 9th edition - that's simply what people are calling the new Warhammer. It may be that you can continue to play an 8th edition type game and/or play this new game GamesWorkshop has started. Harry has mentioned that GW is reinventing what Elves, Dwarfs, etc look like so they can IP their version for their new game.

I've mellowed out quite a bit in the last few days as it was never my game to begin with. It's something I've done for almost 20 years and it's up to GW to decide where this goes. I'm sure there's a very good reason that Warhammer Fantasy has come to this. GW seriously considered dropping Fantasy entirely (according to Harry about a GW meeting 2-3 years ago) and this may be a last ditch effort to see what they can do. Also, according to GW employees the March(?) calendar is red, meaning that no one is allowed to take off holidays for any reason. all employees are to be present and accounted for. For reference, the beginning of the End Times phase was in yellow on the calendars - meaning this is even bigger, and more important than that....for what it's worth.

If the new Warhammer doesn't work I always wanted to try X-Wing anyways. Very Happy

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  Pud on Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:57 pm

I have the whole fleet, just saying.

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  squalie on Mon May 11, 2015 9:02 pm

Some alleged rules for 9th edition...what do you think?

- the 9th edition rules aren't going to be the big jump that moving from 7th edition to 8th was.
- there are going to be 3 versions of Warhammer. The Age of Sigmar - recommended for point totals 500 to 1,500 and will be a skirmish style game. The Age of Steel - Warhammer as we all played it over the last 5 years. The End Times - magic heavy and 50% lords & heroes (and Lore of Undeath).
- power dice are now a base of 2D6 (4D6 for End Times) up to 2,000 points, add another power dice for every 1,000 points after that so fielding a 4,000 point army would roll 4D6 Winds of Magic or 6D6 in the End Times.
- lots of new spells though the #6 spells all allow Ward Saves
- new magic items. Some went away, some new ones arrived.
- 8th edition measuring still exists
- Regeneration now works like a War Hydra, dead models come back with a single wound on a 4+ (I think Plaguebearers just won Warhammer)
- Lances do impact his on the charge
- Spears are +1ST if they hold against "mounted units"
- ASF has changed. Units that charge get ASF vs the unit they charge.
- Fear as now but tests are at -1 leadership, Terror at -2 (BSBs are still OP)
- Killing Blow does D3 wounds
- Heroic Killing Blow still kills everything
- characters riding monsters have a merged profile (which I presume is why cannons are still going shout '10 from the back!'...)
- Steadfast can be lost with a single rank of 5 in the flank. Units cannot be Steadfast against anything that can Thunderstomp them
- 2D6 Scenarios and a much broader terrain chart
- models lose half their charge roll distance if they clip terrain (think of it as toned down 7th edition terrain rules) though dangerous terrain is still in effect (1s to wound for models that take dangerous terrain tests)
- new building rules though they still look bad
- combat resolution - outnumbering is back
- holding table quarters is back too

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  nathanr on Mon May 11, 2015 9:14 pm

I like all of these. Especially the ASF when charging and no steadfast against thunderstomp rules.

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

Post  Carson on Mon May 11, 2015 10:11 pm

sounds like a Christmas wish list for warhammer, I hope its right. Where did you pull this from?

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Re: A LOT to chew on about 9th edition. Everyone needs to read.....

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