Painting stuff what I do whens I paint.

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Painting stuff what I do whens I paint.

Post  ScottRadom on Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:52 pm

In another thread Nathan asked a few questions about stuff I do. I thought I'd start this thread as a discussion really for questions we can ask each other and I thought I'd start it off.

First a quick thing about me. I've been painting armies for a a long time then a couple years ago I started looking online and getting some advice to help me get some better results with painting. Now I think I paint a lot better and have even managed to win a few online comps and stuff.

So... some things I was asked...

What colour primer do I use? I use a light grey primer from Tamiya. I've used just about every commercial spray primer out there and this one is by far the best and it only comes in light grey and white. I don't like white as I usually try to paint a little darker and I don't like black anymore because it seems to make the detail harder to pick out and covering black with lighter colours is a real punch in the dick.

How do I prep a model? I have found that every second spent in prepping a mini is worth it. How many paint jobs have you seen ruined by a mold line? Lots of pewter mini's have a real rough finish which makes doing smooth blending impossible. So for plastic and resin mini's I use an x acto and scrape every line I see. Pewter mini's I use a file and I finish the mini once the lines are cleaned by rubbing some extra fine steel wool over the whole piece. It should shine when done. I usually take a ball off fresh milliput and poke a depression in the middle and add water to it. I mix an old brush around in the water and I make a wash consistency fluid I brush over the pewter mini. This helps fill any real tiny barely visible holes and bubbles and makes the surface smooth.

Brushes. Any Kolinsky sable brush is the way to go!!! There's a couple lines out there but I mostly use Rosemary and Co and my fav is the Raphael 8404 series. If you don't use a sable brush you should. It moves paint around way differently. Smoothier, easier, more seductive. There's a few top painters that use synthetic brushes but they're fucking crazy nutjob anticonformist liberal types. Fuck 'em.

I use a wet pallete but that's because I am constantly interrupted by the idiots I live with and work with. A wet pallete means I can mix a colour, get interrupted cover it up and still use it the next day if need be. A wet pallete isn't essential but using some form of pallete is essential. For watering and mixing your paints.

I always water down my paint. Usually 1:1 but sometimes thinner if I am doing some trick blending/layering. Note that I recently started playing around with a technique from a dude named James Wappel that does involve using straight up paint rarely diluted.

More to come maybe. Any questions or differing opinions fire away please. Lets get talking about painting!

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Re: Painting stuff what I do whens I paint.

Post  nathanr on Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:02 pm

Thanks for posting this Scott, all very good information. I always seem to find myself taking shortcuts and finding a fast way of doing things that's "good enough". Next on my painting to do list is a high elf dragon. I think I'm going to take my time with it and really try to use some of these tips. It might be a bit big for that kind of a project but I'm not in any hurry to use the model so I figure I can take my time with it.

I'll try to post updates of my progress and everyone can give me tips and critiques if you want.

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Re: Painting stuff what I do whens I paint.

Post  Kal on Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:49 am

Thanks Scott, this makes me feel like i should come up with more of a proccess. mines more Buy NiB army! spend a week gluing my thumbs to every other model, spray paint black, SELL ARMY - repeat!

I do the same things with my plastic figs to get rid of lines and blemishes. but ive always stayed away from pewter figs because i hate how they look and that i can't use a knife on them. there are some figs that i just need to use metal for, alot of WoC characters and Dwarf stuff. so im gonna try your metal prep tech and see how it goes! thanks.

Where does one get these brushes? I hate the GW brushes but it gives me a good excuse to why the paint sucks, im an AMAZING painter its just the brushes right? Razz

Whats that glue you use again? Im sick of paying 6.99 for a tube of Lepage Gel Crazy Glue (works great don't get me wrong)


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Re: Painting stuff what I do whens I paint.

Post  ScottRadom on Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:37 am

I have two types of glue I like to use, super thin and a thick for different applications. I also use an accelerator spray quite often. I get my hobby glue usually from a hobby store or the den if they have it. I used to like the GW glue and I've used the gale force nine stuff at the Den. It was fine.

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Re: Painting stuff what I do whens I paint.

Post  nathanr on Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:15 am

Hey Scott, where do you get the Tamiya primer? Do they stock it at the Den?

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Re: Painting stuff what I do whens I paint.

Post  Carson on Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:24 pm

Ive also gone to grey primer. Its much easier to see the fine details as Scott mentioned and gives the paints your gonna use a nice neutral surface to use. White primer can really turn colors too bright for my tastes and black is hard to work with. I'm terrible for prepping figs, something I will have to improve upon.

I tried the tip you mentioned on painting black and it works wonders....a revelation!

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Re: Painting stuff what I do whens I paint.

Post  ScottRadom on Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:32 pm

Carson wrote:I tried the tip you mentioned on painting black and it works wonders....a revelation!

Stick with me kid and you'll be wearing gold diapers!

Nathan- I get the primer at JP hobby in PA. Might sell it at hobby world here in town but I hate that fuckin' place so I don't know. Mail order from anywhere should have it. I probably have an extra can or two and Since I am in godless PA twice a week I can always pick up more.

Also another thought about improving painting. My thought has come to think that painting armies you can only get so good at painting. A couple things I think get in the way of steady improvement. I found that painting 100 dwarfs (for example) means you get really good/fast at painting that exact thing over and over again. For me it was a pattern... left boot, right boot, armour etc. that I would get refined to an art and really good at but I would hardly say dwarf #50 looked better than dwarf #6.

A great looking army is almost always composed of a lot of mid quality figures. The real prize is seeing them all together complimenting each other in a unifying theme and the whole piece has a quality as a whole that outshines the quality of the indivual minis. I think anyway.

Painting a miniature one at a time that doesn't have to fit into the scheme of things allows you to really focus on painting one miniature really well. I mean face it, who is going to spend more time then they have to painting boots on a RnF mini in an army? You'd be crazy to even bother. So I think taking time to really, really focus on a single mini outside of an army project is a very worthwhile endeavor.

The other thing that gets in the way of improving is painting a miniature that HAS to fit in. Even if you're painting your army general or another hero for an army the purple on that mini really should look like the purple throughout the army right? So painting a mini that lets you focus on making it your best work ever requires the fact that it doesn't have to fit into anything. And if you try something that looks really awesome but is time consuming you know you don't have to repeat it a couple hundred times more.

I also think that part of this is painting up a mini that for you has no pre conceived notions. If you pick up a Night goblin you "know" the skin needs to be green and the cloak black. A high elf would probably feel wrong painted up with green skin etc. If you pick up a mini from another manufacturer that has none of this baggage I found it helps with a feeling of freedom. Of course sometimes this means I sit for a long time trying to figure out where to go next colour wise with a mini but whatevs.

Maybe it's just me though.

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Re: Painting stuff what I do whens I paint.

Post  Carson on Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:07 pm

Very true. I painted up the avatars of war minotaur ages ago. I had no notion of using it in army, took my time and probably spent more time on it than an average unit for warhammer. I still consider it the best fig I've ever done. The problem for me is finding the desire to paint 1 off projects as I'm always either painting an army for warhammer or flames of war or napoleonics etc.

I figure that I could do both really, probably would help with painting fatigue. I think I'll pick up something I wouldn't ever use and give it a go.

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Re: Painting stuff what I do whens I paint.

Post  nathanr on Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:14 pm

Those are great points Scott. When I look back at the models that I feel are my "best" paint jobs they are either models in my Bretonnian army or one-offs that I painted for fun. The Bret's probably stand out because they are each unique.

I think that's why I picked the dragon rider. While the cloth will likely be white and the metals will be painted to go with my army, I can take some extra time and experiment with some colors on the dragon. I can also try to stretch my freehand legs on the lance flag and cloth bits. I've got the assembly mostly done but I'm going to go back and really spend some time on cleaning up the edges and joints.

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Re: Painting stuff what I do whens I paint.

Post  nathanr on Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:38 am

Well, I checked at the den and they don't stick Tamiya Primer. Next time you are in PA would you pick me up a can Scott? I'd like to try it out on this model.

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Re: Painting stuff what I do whens I paint.

Post  ScottRadom on Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:37 am

I'll try and remember to bring one to Andre's place tomorrow.

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Re: Painting stuff what I do whens I paint.

Post  ScottRadom on Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:45 pm

So I played some warhammer yesterday and came to a bit of a depressing realization. I decided to field a couple RnF mini's I had been painting and a couple I put some extra time into. On the table I knew they were there and looked for them and couldn't find them as they just don't stand out. Painting mini's up to look good under ideal lighting conditions and taking pictures to expand them to 8 times life size doesn't make for a better looking gaiming experience. The work just wasn't visible vs. the horde of 10 year old mini's I had next to them. Mini's I could bang out in a half hour or so presented STRONGER then a pair of ten hour jobs. Once you pick them up of course the difference is staggering but it's clear that an army as a whole requires a different approach then individual display mini's. Though I still won't start just knocking shit out. It would just not feel right mentally.

I think a whole army with the extra time and attention would look really well but I think in a tourney setting it takes some extra steps to get attention across a room. I think some of the things that automatically help out include...

-extra time and attention on bases. Nathan and Carson both had tremendous examples of what a strong base theme and extra work does to get that wow factor from across a crowded room. Well done guys!
-Strong contrasting colour schemes. A good choice in army coulors to grab attention is important. I find that even with OnG greenskin as a built in strong contrasting colour choice vs. just about anyinthing because I paint my armies in a darker kind of muddier looking tone I rob myself of a lot of the possible contrast. Personally I don't think I am really going to change the way I paint but it is something to consider I think.
-Unifying theme through details. Even if your army doesn't have the advantage of having a uniform to match throught out keeping a consistent base theme is a must for a unified strong "wow" army. Also I think having at least one detail on every mini shared is needed. I am working on a nurgle army and I want a strong rust look to all the weapons which I hope will bring them together even though I am going to vary the flesh.

Just some thoughts. It was nice to see in Andre's basement so many painted armies.

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Re: Painting stuff what I do whens I paint.

Post  nathanr on Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:43 pm

It is true, a sub-par paint job is definitely improved by a strong and consistent basing theme. That's what I've been depending on for all these years!

I came to the same realization when I was painting my bretonnians. I painted two Pegasus knights. The first I took a long time to painstakingly paint each feather on the wings to the best of my ability. I drybrushed the second one's wings in about 5 minutes max. I asked my wife which one she thought looked better and she picked the drybrushed one. I was both devastated and a bit relieved because that meant I didn't have to spend hours on each wing.

Scott, you make a good point about dark armies not standing out or catching anyone's eye. I think that you need splashes of light to make them stand out. My dark elves have the white snow on their bases, your orcs have bits of white in the checkerboard pattern you've used throughout the army. If you tossed in a giant or arachnorok that had some conversion work done and a paint job that is better than average you could score very well for painting. If you put some extra work into the bases and did some cool conversions and posing within your units you could win awards without making any great improvements to your old paint jobs.

Keep the golden daemon quality for the individual models that are painted without an army in mind. You'll burn out if you attempt it on an army scale.

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Re: Painting stuff what I do whens I paint.

Post  Carson on Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:46 pm

Interesting thoughts on the mini vs army paint schemes. Ive seen a lot of armies from across a room that made me want to go check them out and a lot that were painted to a very high standard but were almost missed by me as I overlooked them because of the less striking appearance.

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Re: Painting stuff what I do whens I paint.

Post  Kuyp on Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:20 pm

I have a question. How do i keep my brushes in good condition? I stoped buying the shity brushes after a talk with don a while ago and started buying some good ones and the right types. Im finding that even though i clean them with water after each session, they still seem to get paint stuck in them and fray all over the place.

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Re: Painting stuff what I do whens I paint.

Post  squalie on Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:17 pm

Some recommend "Gum Arabic" for cleaning brushes. I bought a cup of Masters Brush Cleaner that works a lot better. Just go to a place like "Michaels", or an artists store. Scott will know where one is in Saskatoon .

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Re: Painting stuff what I do whens I paint.

Post  ScottRadom on Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:31 am

Masters brush cleaner, I think it's at the den if not Micheals. It looks like a hockey puck. Clean it in water, then rub the wet bristles over the hockey puck at an angles as close to flat as possible. You'll likely see what looked like a clean brush really muddy up the soap as you rub it over the puck. Then I rinse the dirty soap off the brush, then I rub the clean brush in the soap again and shape the bristles and let it dry like that . it helps condition the hairs on the brush. It should dry a little crunchy, just rinse the brush before you use it when you go to paint.

Brushes of course still wear out but I get at least 8 months to a year on brushes I use very heavily. I know guys that still use brushes from 10 years ago they use quite a bit.

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