Banner of the World Dragon

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Banner of the World Dragon

Post  N-V-C-G on Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:21 pm

Now, I've come up against that damned banner. I've had discussion with Nathan about this too, but was just wondering if anyone had any solid tactics on how to deal with that damned thing when playing Daemons. Cause both times I've come against it, I've been obliterated. Very frustrating. 2+ Ward save against magic attacks. Brutal. >.>


Last edited by N-V-C-G on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

N-V-C-G

Posts : 88
Join date : 2014-09-05
Age : 31
Location : Saskatoon, SK

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Banner of the World Dragon

Post  Kal on Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:28 pm

Ha back when i had Daemons i was lucky enough never to run into this. No one in our group has ever run that cheesyness against me Razz. But someone was doing the math hammer on the Daemon forums and its like a crazy unrealistic number of attacks you need to do to a unit with that banner just to kill a horde. Feed it stuff that can hold up --> and kill rest of army has been the only real "answer" ive ever read vs that banner for Daemons. If u can hit him with that Slannesh spells that make them random movement could help slow him down.

What unit are u usually seeing it in?

Kal

Posts : 1934
Join date : 2013-04-07
Age : 27
Location : Moose Jaw

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Banner of the World Dragon

Post  N-V-C-G on Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:36 pm

Guy used a Horde of 50 elves, with halberds(?) if I remember correctly. All I know is everything I put in front of it gets mowed down. Of course that was also before I understood how powerful Daemon magic was, so with my new Daemon prince model I should be able to defend myself a little better.


Last edited by N-V-C-G on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

N-V-C-G

Posts : 88
Join date : 2014-09-05
Age : 31
Location : Saskatoon, SK

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Banner of the World Dragon

Post  Kal on Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:41 pm

Ou yay 50 dudes with the banner... thats alot of fun. Honestly feed it low point stuff, use the nurgle -1 to hit and ure 5+ ward. and kill the rest of his army? Or just don't play the guy that brings 50 dudes with BotWD for a casual fun game lol

Kal

Posts : 1934
Join date : 2013-04-07
Age : 27
Location : Moose Jaw

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Banner of the World Dragon

Post  N-V-C-G on Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:02 pm

Eh, can't hold it against someone. Victory is a victory. using the tools one is given. Just up to me to be a little more clever reach time till I can use the might of Khorne to squash him. -manly flex-

N-V-C-G

Posts : 88
Join date : 2014-09-05
Age : 31
Location : Saskatoon, SK

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Banner of the World Dragon

Post  nathanr on Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:09 pm

If you have spells that kill without allowing saves (like Dwellers Below) it'll make him think twice about taking it.

I'm assuming by your description that he's putting it on a unit of phoenix guard. That makes it difficult too. Phoenix guard normally have a 4+ ward save so even if you do use non-magical attacks he's going to save half the wounds. They also have WS5 and S4 so they are going to do some damage. AND the unit can take a 50 point magic banner so it isn't the BSB that has the banner, it's the unit which means you can't just snipe the character to get rid of the banner.

That said, if you can manage to break the unit in combat (no easy task) and they flee, the banner will be lost. That's probably the only good way to do it. Avoid the unit until you can engage on your terms and when you do, hit it from multiple sides, disrupt their ranks and generally rack up as much static combat resolution as you can. Whatever you do, it's going to be an uphill battle for daemons to deal with that banner.

nathanr

Posts : 4513
Join date : 2008-06-10
Age : 35
Location : Saskatoon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Banner of the World Dragon

Post  squalie on Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:58 pm

This is pretty much an auto lose for Daemons. Your best chance is to avoid the unit, kill the rest of his army, while keeping the unit busy with chaff. Seekers, Nurglings, Furies, etc.

The thing is, unless it's a scenario, you almost HAVE to kill the unit as it's 1200+ points of win depending on characters.

I've faced it a few times - not even using my Daemons, and it was a nightmare. Hey, I threw a unit of 40 Swordmasters with Loremaster, a Skycutter in the corner and a Frost Phoenix on the flank...and lost. It's also a crutch.

Now we're going to keep it real for a bit. It's admirable that you say use the tools you have, etc, BUT it's everyone's responsibility to make sure everyone is having fun. The fact that you have taken the time to post about this particular build, proves how frustrating it is...which is never fun.

Your friend putting together 50 Phoenix Guard with Dragon banner is almost not even playing Warhammer, It's just an "I win more" unit. I'm not trying to pick on him and he's probably a swell guy, and we ALL migrate to the uber builds every now and then. We also quickly learn that after awhile no one wants to play against you anymore. Very Happy Dang - does he even own 50 Phoenix Guard? Thats' commitment!

squalie

Posts : 3637
Join date : 2008-06-05
Location : Moose Jaw

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Banner of the World Dragon

Post  N-V-C-G on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:11 pm

Yup, he has a boat load of High Elves, and Skaven. Just kind of makes a guy wonder why even make a Banner that powerful in the first place.

N-V-C-G

Posts : 88
Join date : 2014-09-05
Age : 31
Location : Saskatoon, SK

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Banner of the World Dragon

Post  blizzard435 on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:14 pm

I think he ran 50 spearmen with a BSB with BOTWD.   Lots of static combat res and 5 ranks of ASF attacks due to the elf rule, horde and spears.  

Elf pointy sticks hurt!

I think the answer to this unit has to be the magic phase for daemons.  Final Transmutation (Metal), Pit of Shades (Shadow) or Purple Sun (Death) could take a good chunk.  Problem is that most 'no save' spells are initiative tests which elves can usually pass easily but with 50 guys you'd take out a nice bunch.

blizzard435

Posts : 170
Join date : 2014-05-20
Location : Saskatoon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Banner of the World Dragon

Post  nathanr on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:43 pm

If it's in a unit of spears you only need to sneak 2 wounds through to get rid of the banner. It's a dude on foot that can't have any other magical equipment since he's carrying the banner so the best he can do for armour is 4+. You'll need to do 12 wounds to the character to kill him but that's a lot better than the 300 wounds you'd need to kill a unit of 50 Phoenix guard.

Dwellers below (lore of life) is a good one for getting rid of elves.

nathanr

Posts : 4513
Join date : 2008-06-10
Age : 35
Location : Saskatoon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Banner of the World Dragon

Post  N-V-C-G on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:45 pm

Yeah. I knee it was quite as broken as that. Just didn't realize how powerful it was and tried to squash it.

N-V-C-G

Posts : 88
Join date : 2014-09-05
Age : 31
Location : Saskatoon, SK

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Banner of the World Dragon

Post  squalie on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:49 pm

Daemons don't have Life - literally. Very Happy If it's a unit of Spearmen, then I wouldn't even really complain. There's barely enough points there to bother. Just throw the household pets at it and try to kill the other stuff.

squalie

Posts : 3637
Join date : 2008-06-05
Location : Moose Jaw

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Banner of the World Dragon

Post  N-V-C-G on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:50 pm

Forgot to mention. It was two against one. Me and ogres against him. Banner is much more appropriate when you are at disadvantage already. Knew I forgot something.

N-V-C-G

Posts : 88
Join date : 2014-09-05
Age : 31
Location : Saskatoon, SK

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Banner of the World Dragon

Post  N-V-C-G on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:51 pm

It was more my inexperience than his Banner. Just hoping someone had some practice with it. Sounds like it's just grind it down best ya can.

N-V-C-G

Posts : 88
Join date : 2014-09-05
Age : 31
Location : Saskatoon, SK

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Banner of the World Dragon

Post  blizzard435 on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:58 pm

big thing is that the elf bsb is only toughness 3 with 2 wounds. taking a banner means no magical protection beyond the banner itself. a horde of plaguebearers could weather the horde and get a lot of attacks on him. a couple of ones later and that unit is now much more manageable.

blizzard435

Posts : 170
Join date : 2014-05-20
Location : Saskatoon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Banner of the World Dragon

Post  Sponsored content Today at 5:17 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum