Seeking coach for learning game

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Kal on Wed May 07, 2014 12:39 am

U have been judged SIR!

Ok warhounds run them in 5 because they arn't a fighting unit. they arn't meant to last combat or hell even win it! This is something few have mastered but once you do it'll change everything. u have to redirect and use them to get in the way. that is all. to make your oppenent have to charge them and either over run themselves outta position or restrain and slow them down a turn, allowing you to counter charge with an actual combat unit.

OU KNIGHTS! excellent. honestly id knock Nurgle warriors down to 19 run em 5x4 Anvil. drop the warshrine entirely for low pt games. try and fit the khorne warriors and knights in. (AB is on my laptop so im not 100% sure point wise) and for points i would pick a Music man or Banner over a Champ. because our champions MUST always issue challenges. Eye of the Gods rule. so i usually just leave them out of chaff units. because of one thing that happened to me once. i ran 3 crushers into a dragon (probably would have killed the dragon if everyone got to attack) but instead i had to issue a challenge so it was one crusher vs elf on a dragon. he slaughtered the crusher and the rest fled.

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  judchic on Wed May 07, 2014 1:42 am

I hate that lol... I love the concept of chaos champions and the eye of the gods table...

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Druchi on Wed May 07, 2014 8:14 am

When people say chaff units, what does that mean? I read it everywhere for a lot of things but haven't related that word...

This should be an interesting game. Skele's and Zombies will die horrible undeaths to leave my black knights chasing puppies around the field. Smile

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Kal on Wed May 07, 2014 8:24 am

Dont get to concerned about Champions. just in smaller units that are meant to flank dont use them. hell i had a Chosen champion become the last surviving member of his unit once and he kept getting stat boosts, i think he had a 3+/6+ and 4 attacks with a halberd at str 6 by the end of the game and WS 7.

Druchi, it is a learning game after all, but dont forget he has 0 magic and you have a lvl 2 /3 that is a phase your going to dominate it. Curse of Years his smaller blocks of Warriors or knights and poof there they go. if all game all that happens is ure knights kill his dogs then tada uve got more points then him. he has to kill the WHOLE unit before he gets any points.

Chaff units are essentially sacrificial units, if a chaff unit survives the game then you did something wrong. there whole goal is to get in the way of your opponents important stuff so they take longer to become effective. so his 30 pts of dogs wants to keep your higher point value of knights wasting their time. every army has different chaff. Empire has outriders and pistoleres. elves have reavers. chaos have doggies. all cheap and disposable. never cry over chaff dying, its their job.

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Druchi on Wed May 07, 2014 8:40 am

I thought the chaos lords had magic...?
Yup, totally newb Razz

And I'm not fretting about anything. I'm gimped in a few ways because of the low points of the game and not having anything but core units pretty much. VC core units can't really do anything but tarpit, and that only if I keep my summonings going.
At least in this game if he doesn't have magic, My Invocations of Nehek can't get countered so I get to totally inflate my units and or summon completely new ones (if I get raise dead).

So you randomly roll for spells?
Can 2 casters in the same army have the same spell? Does this apply to my Lore of Vampires signature spell too?
lol
And the internets say I want Vanhels Dance Macabre, apparently can make my units ASF and reroll stuff, oh, and a free move 8" or something... lol

Ah, okay, I get it now. Dire Wolves are my chaff. I see people make lists that have 2-4 units of them with 5 per unit. Now I know why. I think Spirit hosts also are chaff units because of something to do with ethereal....

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Kal on Wed May 07, 2014 8:46 am

Chaos sorcerers have magic, but they also have an awsome stat line and can wear armor... they are differnet.

Ok your opponent will still get Dispel dice. but he wont get any bonuses for wizard levels. u'll learn this all tommorow. alot simpler to see then to type. but yes at the begining of the game u roll a dice for each wizard level a charcter has and u get those spells. but u can always opt one out for the signature. Honestly i hate magic and usually never run a wizard (not reccomended)

Dire wolves are yes ure chaff. and ethereal units can ONLY be harmed by magic attacks. that is why they are such good chaff. alot of armies dont have a way to deal with that other then giving a character a magic weapon or shooting magic directly at them. except Chaos Wink. Ensorcelled weapons on his knights count as magical weapons.

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Druchi on Wed May 07, 2014 9:12 am

Kal wrote:Chaos sorcerers have magic, but they also have an awsome stat line and can wear armor... they are differnet.

Ok your opponent will still get Dispel dice. but he wont get any bonuses for wizard levels. u'll learn this all tommorow. alot simpler to see then to type. but yes at the begining of the game u roll a dice for each wizard level a charcter has and u get those spells. but u can always opt one out for the signature. Honestly i hate magic and usually never run a wizard (not reccomended)

Dire wolves are yes ure chaff. and ethereal units can ONLY be harmed by magic attacks. that is why they are such good chaff. alot of armies dont have a way to deal with that other then giving a character a magic weapon or shooting magic directly at them. except Chaos Wink. Ensorcelled weapons on his knights count as magical weapons.

I can't wait for the game. Been wanting to play Fantasy since, shit, I got into 40K back in 98... just never have.

I think my next buys, excluding Vampire/Necromancers are going to be Terrorgheist and (maybe) a corpse cart. Been reading that the Corpse Cart is a fickle choice as it usually dies fast, but, if it doesn't the amount it can buff nearby undead is crazy good.
And the terrorgheist... I want ALL the screams... May go a bunch of banshees too... but I don't want people to hate me Razz I was thinking 2 Terrorgheists, but I think that's too much cheese... maybe... we'll see Wink

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Kal on Wed May 07, 2014 9:21 am

Excellent! now quit 40K and come play some FANTASY! Ive only been playing for about 2 years. When Squallie got me hooked Razz.

Terrorgheist yesss indeed. but 2 would be cheese, yes. Very Happy. Buy what you like! not what people insist is good! It'll be funner this way. I wanted to run a Corpse Cart cuz i love the model and a Throne and a Black Carrage. o and Skeles! so many skeles. all of the skeles

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Druchi on Wed May 07, 2014 9:43 am

Kal wrote:Excellent! now quit 40K and come play some FANTASY! Ive only been playing for about 2 years. When Squallie got me hooked Razz.

I'd be lying if I didn't think about it...
40k has gotten me, annoyed... since it's 6th edition release.. And now 7th is coming... w.t.f!!!!
Plus, I play Pathfinder, and have great interest in fantasy games, that I just don't know why I haven't played warhammer fantasy yet....

Yeah, 2 TGs are evil from my readings, and really its just the ppl taking them to tournaments. I will get 1 tho, that's a given, but will prolly take a Mortis Engine/Coven Throne instead of a 2nd TG.

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  nathanr on Wed May 07, 2014 9:56 am

Yeah, 2 TGs are evil from my readings, and really its just the ppl taking them to tournaments. I will get 1 tho, that's a given, but will prolly take a Mortis Engine/Coven Throne instead of a 2nd TG.

Really, buy what you want. We shamed Sean out of taking a Daemon Prince and I've felt a little bit bad about it ever since. It's his own fault for taking us seriously though. It is your job to bring an army that you want to play with, it's your opponent's job to figure out how to beat that army. It's both of your jobs to figure out how to make it a fun game.

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Druchi on Wed May 07, 2014 10:09 am

Well that's a good way to go about it.

Is it tomorrow yet? hehe
muuuuust learn to play...

thinking of documenting my modeling project in the forum below once I get some pics taken. Soooo many models...
tis my first horde army.

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Kal on Wed May 07, 2014 10:12 am

nathanr wrote:
Yeah, 2 TGs are evil from my readings, and really its just the ppl taking them to tournaments. I will get 1 tho, that's a given, but will prolly take a Mortis Engine/Coven Throne instead of a 2nd TG.

Really, buy what you want.  We shamed Sean out of taking a Daemon Prince and I've felt a little bit bad about it ever since.  It's his own fault for taking us seriously though.  It is your job to bring an army that you want to play with, it's your opponent's job to figure out how to beat that army.  It's both of your jobs to figure out how to make it a fun game.

No need to feel bad sir! I agree that it was just no fun. he was winning games by himself. and my opponent was never having any fun. And ive been having more fun running more offbeat lists with Hellstriders and stuff!

I agree, play with what u want!

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Druchi on Wed May 07, 2014 10:14 am

Kal wrote:No need to feel bad sir! I agree that it was just no fun. he was winning games by himself. and my opponent was never having any fun. And ive been having more fun running more offbeat lists with Hellstriders and stuff!

I agree, play with what u want!

So... I hear Vampire Lords slaughter Daemon Princes.... Wink

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Kal on Wed May 07, 2014 10:20 am

Druchi wrote:
Kal wrote:No need to feel bad sir! I agree that it was just no fun. he was winning games by himself. and my opponent was never having any fun. And ive been having more fun running more offbeat lists with Hellstriders and stuff!

I agree, play with what u want!

So... I hear Vampire Lords slaughter Daemon Princes.... Wink

U hear wrong? i dont beleive so. WS 9. Str 6- t5- u can get them a 1+/5+ save easy. -1 to hit in CC and soul feeder each wound they cause on a roll of 6 they gain it back. breath weapon. honestly i think its a combat that would never go anywhere. till someone got super lucky or someone got super unlucky. key here is the Daemon Prince can fly around 20" so he can PICK if he even wants to fight the Vamp or not.

O yeah and he is unbreakable

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Druchi on Wed May 07, 2014 10:53 am

Sounds like my vampire lord Razz
Close to similar stats, less a couple WS and a less T, but vamp probably fights first, has black knight back up (excluding the fact that you probably will avoid combat with it entirely because you can fly). /shrug

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Kal on Wed May 07, 2014 11:06 am

Druchi wrote:Sounds like my vampire lord Razz
Close to similar stats, less a couple WS and a less T, but vamp probably fights first, has black knight back up (excluding the fact that you probably will avoid combat with it entirely because you can fly). /shrug

There is a difference as well, u get a unit to back you up. i dont. so at that point ill issue a challenger then it turns into a 1 v 1. And if we both have the ASF sword on then it would turn into who has higher ini. and with my higher WS and your +1 to hit sword. but my -1 to hit in cc. you are hitting on 4's im hitting on 5's. and yeah it would get messy.

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Druchi on Wed May 07, 2014 11:14 am

Kal wrote:There is a difference as well, u get a unit to back you up. i dont. so at that point ill issue a challenger then it turns into a 1 v 1. And if we both have the ASF sword on then it would turn into who has higher ini. and with my higher WS and your +1 to hit sword. but my -1 to hit in cc. you are hitting on 4's im hitting on 5's. and yeah it would get messy.

found a post on VC dealing with DP's... haha, funny...

"How do you deal with DP's of Nugle"
someone says a TG...
The very next line is some saying 2 TGs...

I guess yeah, a blender Vamp lord doesn't do well against them, Looks like its the only thing that they can't do well against.

They say tar pit it with ALL THE ZOMBIES and kill the rest on the army... Razz
Was funny

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Kal on Wed May 07, 2014 11:30 am

Druchi wrote:
Kal wrote:There is a difference as well, u get a unit to back you up. i dont. so at that point ill issue a challenger then it turns into a 1 v 1. And if we both have the ASF sword on then it would turn into who has higher ini. and with my higher WS and your +1 to hit sword. but my -1 to hit in cc. you are hitting on 4's im hitting on 5's. and yeah it would get messy.

found a post on VC dealing with DP's... haha, funny...

"How do you deal with DP's of Nugle"
someone says a TG...
The very next line is some saying 2 TGs...

I guess yeah, a blender Vamp lord doesn't do well against them, Looks like its the only thing that they can't do well against.

They say tar pit it with ALL THE ZOMBIES and kill the rest on the army... Razz
Was funny

Sounds about right tbh Wink. ALL THE ZOMBIES. but then again 6 attacks then a D6 thunder stomp and a 2d6 breath weapon. i could probably nom nom through a few zombies every turn. Wink.

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Druchi on Wed May 07, 2014 11:38 am

You just have to think about nom noming zombies and they'll die... That's what Invocation of Nehek is for Razz
But its weird to read about how strong the DPs are, though, even my readings I have to wonder if that's how most people regard the Vamp lord kitted out...


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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Kal on Wed May 07, 2014 11:46 am

Vamp lords are definitely cruel. but they dont fly. usually go in a unit. and can Crumble. but then again going in a unit means they can't be picked off by cannonball fire. not easily atleast. and they have friends to help them out in combat. Ive only ever fought Carson's VC. and i know his Vamp lord has crunched up a few of my units before. then there is the red fury ghoul king people like to run. he gets a ton of attacks.

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Druchi on Wed May 07, 2014 2:15 pm

Kal wrote:Vamp lords are definitely cruel. but they dont fly. usually go in a unit. and can Crumble. but then again going in a unit means they can't be picked off by cannonball fire. not easily atleast. and they have friends to help them out in combat. Ive only ever fought Carson's VC. and i know his Vamp lord has crunched up a few of my units before. then there is the red fury ghoul king people like to run. he gets a ton of attacks.

Okay. So are ALL DP's *this* bad, or just the ones with Mark of Nurgle?

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  Kal on Wed May 07, 2014 2:55 pm

Well nurgle only gives him -1 to hit in CC and access to the lore of nurgle magic. Which is supose to be the best lore (i prefer slannesh). But genrally any daemon princs thrown at u will be similarly kitted and just as mean. Khorne being the least mean maybe? Only cuz he cant be a wizard

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  decker_cky on Wed May 07, 2014 3:43 pm

Nurgle (-1 to hit means 6's to hit for many RNF, death magic is vicious for a Ld9 flyer) and slaanesh (lore of slaanesh on a flyer is ridiculous). Tzeentch and Khorne are still great (very resilient and dangerous unbreakable monster), but Khorne isn't a wizard, and metal and tzeentch lores don't compare to death, slaanesh or shadows.

Vampire blender lords are rough too, but they don't tick quite as many boxes for me as nurgle or slaanesh daemon princes (unbreakable IMO was way too much).

But I wouldn't look at any one choice as a no-go. If you want to take a nurgle daemon prince but don't want to be 'that guy', just take some more interesting (and less ideal) magic and gift upgrades. Maybe you don't take them as a wizard? Maybe you don't armour them to the teeth? Daemon princes will always be good choices, and can be fun for both players if you don't go all out.

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  squalie on Wed May 07, 2014 4:01 pm

(unbreakable IMO was way too much).

Ah. Greed.

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

Post  decker_cky on Wed May 07, 2014 4:03 pm

squalie wrote:Ah. Greed.

It was a strange choice to give altogether. Every other unbreakable choice in the game? No saves. Daemon prince? Let's put it on a model with access to a 2+/5++ save and -1 to hit. Nothing could go wrong there.

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Re: Seeking coach for learning game

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