Some beginner fantasy questions

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Some beginner fantasy questions

Post  Planes on Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:42 pm

I've been eyeing up Warhammer Fantasy for some time now, having played 40k for a while now. Lots of great sculpts and conversion potential has had me looking through all the armies, and now that I find myself starting Chaos Daemons to use in 40k, I realized that Chaos Daemons is a valid army for both games.

I've done some preliminary poking around the net to try to figure out some basic things, like when in the turn sequence the magic phase falls and what's a valid formation, and I find myself with a few questions.

Would anyone mind the use of round bases on movement trays for the purposes of core units? I figure anything larger than infantry should be easy enough to magnetize base options for, at least for anything I build from this point on.

What extent of core units are generally required? Would 30-some basic daemons be a solid starting point, ore merely a stepping stone to having an "actual" army?

And are there any general tips for things to keep in mind, as either a new player or someone new(ish) to this particular board? Is there a general yay or nay on crazy theme armies?

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Re: Some beginner fantasy questions

Post  nathanr on Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:17 pm

Round bases would be ok to start but it could be difficult to get the models to rank up in the same way as you would for a fantasy army. Are they 25mm diameter round bases or bigger than that? If they are 25mm then it shouldn't be much of an issue actually.

A minimum 25% of your points must be core. 30 daemonettes is certainly a starting point but depending on the point level you might still have a ways to go. I'm not particularily familiar with daemon point values so I'm probably not the person to ask but game sizes in the league are generally 2500 points although we are pretty flexible. I have been trying for a while to run 1250 point tournaments as well every 2 or 3 months.

Crazy theme armies are good, so long as it is easy to discern what everything is supposed to be. If you try to pass off goblin wolf riders as dark elves it might not go over as well.

Welcome to the side of good Warhammer!

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Re: Some beginner fantasy questions

Post  decker_cky on Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:52 pm

The 25mm infantry should fit in a movement tray fine (just tested it). It would work best to magnetize them, since they won't sit too cleanly and will shuffle around on a basic movement tray. I think some of the other units have larger bases in 40k, but it'll really depend on what you have.

The daemon infantry is all 11-14 pts per model (daemonettes are 11). Command is 10 pts each (champion/musician/standard). You can take a magic banner that counts towards the 25% too. Probably 50 or so infantry models fills the core in a 2500 pt army (that's the standard).

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Re: Some beginner fantasy questions

Post  Planes on Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:10 pm

Did some quick math, and with some basic wargear involved, I would have to roughly double my troop count to play at 2500 with minimum troops.

As for larger based models, I was just planning on building both bases and magnetizing, so the Plague Drones I am working on now would have both the skimmer base and the cavalry base. Magnetizing the trays should be easy enough to do. Blue Table has been going on about them in their videos for some time, and it looks pretty easy to accomplish. Just need to find a large sheet of magnet to work with.

With the whole theme thing, I was shooting for underwater Chaos, with most stuff still being built out of the same kit as the base models. Daemonettes into mermaids/sirens, Plague Drones into Daemonic Angler Fish, Cthulhu for a Daemon Prince, and my Soul Grinder is mostly built already, resembling a giant crab.

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Re: Some beginner fantasy questions

Post  Planes on Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:02 am

I haven't had a chance to pick up the core book just yet, so skimming through the Daemons book left me wondering, are the (Character) and (Special Character) subtypes responsible for handling the rules that let a Lord/Hero join a formation? Or is that handled by a different rule?

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Re: Some beginner fantasy questions

Post  nathanr on Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:09 am

Ok, armylist 101

Your army is chosen from the following categories:

Lords (max. 25%) - These are the most powerful characters. The more powerful special characters also fall into this category. For Daemons these will be your greater daemons and special character greater daemons. I think they are all classified as monsters so they will not be able to join units but I might be wrong on that.

Heroes (max. 25%) - These are your supporting characters. There are named special characters included here as well. For the most part these guys can join units although daemons might have rules against mixing chaos marks (ie: a herald of nurgle can't join a unit of daemonettes) so look into that. An important thing to remember is that characters are purchased individually and can generally be moved in and out of your units as you desire throughout the game.

Core (min. 25%) - These are your common choices. Your daemonettes, bloodletters, plaguebearers and horrors will make up most of your points here.

Special (max. 50%) - These are more specialized and powerful unit choices

Rare (max. 25%) - Even more specialized and powerful choices. I don't remember what units are in what category for Daemons anymore.

With the unit choices you listed and a few extra things that I've added, your army would look kind of like this:

Lord:
Daemon Prince with lots of equipment and special rules - 450ish points

Heroes:
Herald of Slaanesh with battle standard and some daemonic gifts - 150ish points
Herald of Slaanesh - 125ish points

Core:
30-40 Daemonettes with full command and maybe a magic banner - 400ish points
30-40 Daemonettes with full command and maybe a magic banner - 400ish points

Special:
3 Plague Drones (I don't have the newest book so I don't know if these are special or rare or what they cost) - 150 points?
5 or 6 Seekers of Slaanesh (you could make them riding daemonic seahorses) - 150ish points

Rare:
Soulgrinder - no idea on the points of this, 250?

That would take you to roughly 2000. I'd consult with some of the Daemon players as to the effectiveness of a list like this and then use the extra points to fill it out as you see fit.

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Re: Some beginner fantasy questions

Post  Planes on Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:24 am

Plague Drones seem to be rares now, and Soul Grinders sit at 250 with no upgrades it seems, would be sitting closer to 305-315 with the options I'm eyeing up.

So, the the Monster type prevents it from joining things. Darn, I had such a pretty picture in my head of a Great Unclean One waddling forward with 30-odd plaguebearers in a horde formation, just to be ponderous and lacking in maneuverability.

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Re: Some beginner fantasy questions

Post  decker_cky on Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:20 pm

Great unclean ones are a great general. Relatively fast, very resilient (more wounds and toughness than other greater daemons), and if you make them a wizard (often a good idea), they have an excellent lore.

One quirk that's rather important for daemon armies is that the general and BSB only work for models of the same mark, so you have to pay attention to that in army composition. The leadership and rerolls aren't as important for daemon armies as they are for non-daemon armies, but they're still worth considering. There's also basically an identical reign of chaos chart as there is for the 40k book which means there's advantages and disadvantages to either being pure (not hit often but hit hard when you're hit) or mixed (hit more often, but rarely hit too hard).

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Re: Some beginner fantasy questions

Post  Planes on Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:18 pm

Something else that just sprung to mind from the 40k side of things: how important are objectives in 8th Ed Fantasy? Both as objects to have in one's collection and as for things to control on the battle field. 6th Ed 40k took a heavy swing towards objective holding, but from a lot of the battle reports I've been reading on the forums here there's a lot of "I killed 1000 points vs opponent killing 1250" and so on.

Is the general intent of things to kill more/die less than your opponent, or are holding areas of interest more important? Should I start putting bits towards making markers?

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Re: Some beginner fantasy questions

Post  decker_cky on Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:59 pm

Don't need to bring objectives.

6 basic objectives you roll on are:
-Basic line-em up and kill battle
-Line-em up battle with disrupted deployment (roll and units may be forced to deploy center or either flank).
-Basic line-em up battle, but you play the long way across the table (and nothing can come in from the sides - of which there are a few units otherwise).
-Blood and Glory (don't drop below a threshold of banners/general alive) (but otherwise line-em up that you can't deploy on the flank and can start a little closer to each other_.
-Diagonal deployment battle that you can start just over 12" apart, and some units show up late - but still just playing for kills.
-Watchtower (hold the tower at the end of the game to win).

Nothing with objectives unless you're playing a custom scenario.

4 of 6 scenarios are won by victory points, but they're all pretty killy. Still....maneuvering is always hugely important (I'd say the game is won in the movement phase).

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Re: Some beginner fantasy questions

Post  Planes on Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:20 pm

Hopefully these questions aren't pestering you guys too much. As I'm soaking in the core book right now, it occurred to me that I should ask what the general community stance is on Forge World, as I know all too well that not everyone is of one mind on the subject.

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Re: Some beginner fantasy questions

Post  nathanr on Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:24 pm

In my opinion, if you can afford it go for it! They make some great models and their empire stuff almost makes me want to make an empire army.

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