Transformation of Kadon Question

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Transformation of Kadon Question

Post  nathanr on Thu May 09, 2013 11:06 am

Here is an interesting scenario:

The spell Transformation of Kadon can only be cast by a wizard on foot. When cavalry models assault a building they dismount and become infantry. When does that dismount happen? In the movement phase when they complete their charge or in the combat phase when the assault takes place? Could a mounted wizard charge a unit in a building and then cast Transformation in the magic phase and then assault the building as a dragon?

It seems like a long shot and a very rare situation but it would be a useful trick for a Bretonnian army in the Watchtower scenario.

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Re: Transformation of Kadon Question

Post  Galadros on Thu May 09, 2013 12:31 pm

The tricky thing here is that I don't beleive your troop type changes while assaulting a building (i.e. still classified as cavalry). Either way it only occurs for the duration of the combat phase, not the movement phase. So, you'd still be on the horse through the magic and shooting phases. Since you cannot occupy the building as cavalry, you'd never be inside during a magic phase either.
This raises another question about assaulting though...
Are your knights stompable while assaulting a building? I don't think so either if you're stil classed as cavalry. What are your thoughts?

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Re: Transformation of Kadon Question

Post  squalie on Thu May 09, 2013 2:30 pm

My thought is Nathan shouldn't even be thinking this stuff, let alone posting about it. Wink

Either way, you are still troop type cavalry. Do the "become" infantry? This is a very silly, slippery slope to start dissecting phases and even more silly to apply "real world" actions to Warhammer combat.

Shame Nathan, shame. Wink

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Re: Transformation of Kadon Question

Post  nathanr on Thu May 09, 2013 2:33 pm

Fair enough, I was just trying to find a way around the "I auto-lose due to watchtower" scenario.

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Re: Transformation of Kadon Question

Post  squalie on Thu May 09, 2013 3:05 pm

I completely understand and I'm just teasing anyways. I'm all aboard for finding ways to help against the watchtower and building silliness.

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Re: Transformation of Kadon Question

Post  nathanr on Thu May 09, 2013 3:14 pm

I've found Questing Knights are possibly the best choice for assaulting a building, they at least have S6 with their great weapons and aren't as expensive to lose as Grail knights. Here's another question: If Grail knights (or any other knights for that matter) assaulted a building, would they get parry saves? Its also not a common scenario since they'll usually have the ward save from the blessing anyway but lets say they'd lost the blessing somehow.

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Re: Transformation of Kadon Question

Post  squalie on Thu May 09, 2013 3:27 pm

I think again depends on their class. If it says infantry, then I'd vote against. If it says simply, and ONLY models on foot - you may have a case there.

In fact, I would think this had to have come up before with knights assaulting, etc.

Damn you for getting these thoughts in my head!

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Re: Transformation of Kadon Question

Post  Carson on Thu May 09, 2013 5:32 pm

I'd vote for simply banning the scenario...problem solved.

I hate watchtower with a passion.

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Re: Transformation of Kadon Question

Post  Kal on Thu May 09, 2013 5:32 pm

Never done it. SOunds ... Fun?

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Re: Transformation of Kadon Question

Post  nathanr on Thu May 09, 2013 5:56 pm

The spell says it "can only be cast upon the wizard, and only if he is on foot." So no reference to infantry hence my original question.


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Re: Transformation of Kadon Question

Post  decker_cky on Mon May 13, 2013 11:13 am

Unclear whether or not it works. If it works, I assume the spell automatically ends at the end of the close combat when the unit moves 1" away from the building?

If you're depending on transformation, the questing knights don't add that much since the wizard is a monster which counts as 6 models. Seems better to have a wizard in a unit of men-at-arms (possibly with a combat hero on foot supporting) since that forces your opponent to dispel transformation.

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Re: Transformation of Kadon Question

Post  nathanr on Mon May 13, 2013 12:22 pm

The wizard would be in a unit of knights, most likely knights of the realm who are pretty useless at assaulting a building by themselves. Using the Transformation trick would change a relatively harmless charge into something that could actually do some damage.

The discussion about questing knights was separate and a bit off-topic but currently it is pretty much the only option for effective competent building assault in an all-mounted bretonnian army.

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