WOC, There back!!!!!!

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WOC, There back!!!!!!

Post  Carson on Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:11 pm

check it out.....WOC for Feb.

http://natfka.blogspot.se/2013/01/surprise-warriors-of-chaos-for-february.html

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Re: WOC, There back!!!!!!

Post  nathanr on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:20 pm

Here's some more pics:

http://powerposey.blogspot.ca/

I like the dragon ogres and the new monsters and chariots look interesting. Most of it isn't my idea of what a Warriors of Chaos army is all about but it looks like they now have more options for supporting units and monsters. That troll king model is great too.

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Re: WOC, There back!!!!!!

Post  squalie on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:58 pm

I promised, and am holding myself to, no more armies until I have the High Elves, tomb Kings and Bretonnians fully painted. Sigh.

I suffer from "new shiny" syndrome. Daemons will be out shortly after so ill probably just hold off until they are released.

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Re: WOC, There back!!!!!!

Post  RickyDMMontoya on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:45 pm

I can't STAND the new aesthetic.

Too smooth and plastic-y. On everything. It all looks like Warmahordes stuff. And I hate that stuff. So I hate all of this stuff. Every bit of it.

See my comment here:
http://raveninghordes.forumakers.com/t1234-orcs-and-goblins-from-forge-world#11832

Give me this over that anyday:


I hate the direction the models in this game are going.

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Re: WOC, There back!!!!!!

Post  Trevor Y. on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:02 am

Those new models look amazing!

Maybe once my Skaven and Tomb Kings are done, I will start another army... 2 years? lol!

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Re: WOC, There back!!!!!!

Post  squalie on Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:07 am

I like most of the new models, but I'll kinda agree with Eric - these are looking more like toys than figs. It's what turned me off the new Chaos Knights as I MUCH prefer the 6th edition ones. It started to creep in with the Chosen figs. The first time I saw them I was a little reserved. I really do like the Dragon Ogres and the Large beast is Lovecraftian enough for me to love it.

Differing tastes is fascinating actually.

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Re: WOC, There back!!!!!!

Post  Carson on Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:48 am

I like the new stuff but If I had a chance to buy the figs that eric hs shown I would gladly scoop them up in preference. Example would be...old plague monks vs the new ones, I got into this game because of the visual feel of the old figs. Like everything else, change is good and bad in ways.

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Re: WOC, There back!!!!!!

Post  Trevor Y. on Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:07 am

I personally like the newer stuff better.
Smile

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Re: WOC, There back!!!!!!

Post  nathanr on Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:25 am

Here's the thing: The new stuff is largely, if not completely, created from computer-generated models while the old stuff was all sculpted by hand. The hand-sculpted stuff may have been based on some concept art but it was pretty much left to the sculptor to decide on the aesthetic of the model which resulted in some very characterful individual sculpts which could be combined into quite a ramshackle-looking horde.

With the advent of computer sculpting, the artists are able to refine and re-use components and more efficiently design the sculpts to work together and achieve a unified aesthetic. This may or may not be a good thing depending on personal taste. It certainly opens up new possibilities with dual-purpose kits that fit perfectly together, interchangeability between Plastic kits (Empire, High Elves, etc) and upgrade kits that actually fit as well. Hopefully this will also address the scale issues that always seem to occur when some kits are changed and others are not, GW can now have a digital model of the "scale" of a Chaos warrior, Elf, human etc. so they won't end up having a dwarf that towers over an empire spearman or a kroxigor that is the same size as a saurus.

Like it or not, this is the direction that GW is headed. Hopefully the designers will re-discover the character that they put into the old models in a way that works with the new methods and everyone will be happy again.

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Re: WOC, There back!!!!!!

Post  RickyDMMontoya on Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:31 am

nathanr wrote:With the advent of computer sculpting, the artists are able to refine and re-use components and more efficiently design the sculpts to work together and achieve a unified aesthetic. This may or may not be a good thing depending on personal taste.
That's fine, but why does the Aesthetic have to look like Privateer Press shit?

=


It certainly opens up new possibilities with dual-purpose kits that fit perfectly together,
I actually hate this idea. It may save GW some scratch, but the results are always so compromised. I don't like that a Plague Furnace looks like a Screaming Bell with a different top piece. I hate that a Warp Lightning Cannon looks like a Plagueclaw catapult. I think the Empire chariots are ALL too similar (even the War Altar that has a separate kit!). It's a compromised, boring way to do it.


interchangeability between Plastic kits (Empire, High Elves, etc)
For the same reasons above, I hope we never see that. We certainly haven't yet.

and upgrade kits that actually fit as well.
Could be useful.

Hopefully this will also address the scale issues that always seem to occur when some kits are changed and others are not, GW can now have a digital model of the "scale" of a Chaos warrior, Elf, human etc. so they won't end up having a dwarf that towers over an empire spearman or a kroxigor that is the same size as a saurus.
That would be great if they were doing it. I haven't seen any evidence of that yet.

Like it or not, this is the direction that GW is headed. Hopefully the designers will re-discover the character that they put into the old models in a way that works with the new methods and everyone will be happy again.

Why can't GW have all the GOOD things of computer aided modelling, and keep some sense of character or interest in their models. Look at all the bloody Chaos stuff, all the blank smooth surfaces. That's not Chaos and it's not interesting. I am pretty sure Kingdom Death uses entirely computer aided sculpting, so how come they can have interesting models like this when GW can't?


This is a Chaos Lord:


Not this:


Shame the shitty one is made by GW.

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Re: WOC, There back!!!!!!

Post  nathanr on Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:27 am

You should have used this picture for the chariot, it is even more similar to the privateer press one:



I agree that GW has been moving more toward this sort of aesthetic in the last few years, especially with the WOC stuff. I would imagine it has something to do with market research and influence from other companies and popular media. Is it a good thing? Only time will tell. To you it obviously isn't but if 10 kids buy into it because they think it looks cool then GW is ahead and they are a business that is into making money. I think they are justified to make any moves that they feel will make them more money, it doesn't stop me from being outraged if I feel that they have "wrecked" my army but at the same time I am not forced to buy the new models.

interchangeability between Plastic kits (Empire, High Elves, etc)

For the same reasons above, I hope we never see that. We certainly haven't yet.

Hopefully this will also address the scale issues that always seem to occur when some kits are changed and others are not, GW can now have a digital model of the "scale" of a Chaos warrior, Elf, human etc. so they won't end up having a dwarf that towers over an empire spearman or a kroxigor that is the same size as a saurus.

That would be great if they were doing it. I haven't seen any evidence of that yet.

We have seen that. Take the High Elf range since Island of Blood. I think you'll agree that the swordmasters, sea guard, white lions, phoenix guard, lion/tiranoc chariot, dragon princes, and character models that have all been designed using computer-modelling are very consistently scaled to each other. You could also argue that the components from these kits could be swapped and kit-bashed quite effectively. In fact, the painting and modelling forum on Ulthuan.net is filled with examples of this. Given time, I would also argue that as the older kits are replaced with new ones that the scale will now remain consistent.

Empire plastic kits are another good example of this. The components from their plastic kits can be swapped quite easily, even among the older plastic kits. Plus the multitude of bits that you get and the ease of converting plastic means you have more options than ever for kit-bashing and conversions.

Why can't GW have all the GOOD things of computer aided modelling, and keep some sense of character or interest in their models. Look at all the bloody Chaos stuff, all the blank smooth surfaces. That's not Chaos and it's not interesting. I am pretty sure Kingdom Death uses entirely computer aided sculpting, so how come they can have interesting models like this when GW can't?

I think that in time the sculptors are going to catch up with the technology and the kits will get better. I'd argue that in most cases they are vastly better than the old sculpts (skaven clanrats, High Elf Phoenix Guard, Swordmasters, VC Skeletons, etc. etc. etc.).

Kingdom of Death is an excellent company and I would imagine that GW can't afford to employ sculptors of that caliber. Plus those sculptors probably don't want to be limited by GW's IP and concept art as right now they seem to be given pretty much free reign of what they want to do. It will be interesting to see what happens to their sculpting now that their kickstarter is over $2.5 million. You can definitely see examples with the Avatars of war stuff. Their plastic kits, while awesome are nowhere as good as their character models.

And I personally love that new plastic Chaos Lord, best of the new models in my opinion. Of course that is just my opinion. Wink

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Re: WOC, There back!!!!!!

Post  squalie on Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:31 am

I like these models. Enough to start an army, but that isn't saying much coming from me. I will side with Eric on the thing that does bug me is the dual kits having too much similarity. Totally understand the fiscal aspect and its tempered by the fact that at least - they're dual kits. At least there's a choice right?

Dunno, really trying to avoid GW hate. It's only going to affect the game I enjoy in a negative way so there's little point.

**edit**

Geez, you guys are fast. Anyways, I also really happen to like privateer press stuff. Some very cool looking models in most cases. That of course, is the 12 year old in me talking. Proud of that too - it's the secret to loving this hobby. Honestly, why be cynical over a hobby game?

I still say my favorite models are the oop Confrontation stuff, that's rumored to be rereleased.

*waits for Scott to respond*

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Re: WOC, There back!!!!!!

Post  RickyDMMontoya on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:01 pm

@Don,

That Rackham stuff is the worst offender, and best example of the style that I see GW stuff sliding towards. It's like a sliding scale from Old GW stuff at 0 to new GW stuff and Privateer Press stuff at 75, and that Rackham stuff at 100. It's like impressionist miniatures.

That's exactly the kind of aesthetic that I don't want to see in this game.

The old miniatures were never realistic, because they couldn't be. But they were trying to be.

Now that they can be realistic, they have given up, and are instead trying to be "artistic".

My absolute favourite miniatures GW has ever produced (without a lie - these are my favourite!):


Simple, effective. Within the bounds of reason and plausibility. Like Nazi gasmasks built in the 1400's on evil ratmen.

Compare that with this:


Sure, Ikit is a "better" sculpt. But it's also, in my opinion, far, far worse. And the reason I think it's worse, is because it looks more like this:

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Re: WOC, There back!!!!!!

Post  ScottRadom on Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:39 pm

Meh, different strokes for different folks. Rackham has some mini's I like, I got a bunch fo their Orcs not that long ago. I don't mind the PP Trollbloods line up. Most of the rest is shit.

Unlike Eric I don't pine over the old GW stuff. That old ass great unclean one is shit. Then again their last metal one is shit. Only FW got it right.

When it comes to armies from GW all I ask for is a little consistency in each army. I think OnG mostly has it, Tomb kings had it. Dwarves were a mess. The awesome metal trollslayers were the besty mini's in the range and they're way out of scale and design with the rest of the newer plastics.

This chaos range looks like it's all over the fuckin' map. That chaos lord is a nice looking mini. I might pick it up and paint it. But am I supposed to go for the whole Chaos general surveying the battlefield calmly with his hand on the pommel of his sword? He's going to be in a unit of mini's that are locked in the advance and kill kind of pose. Dislike that shit.

A lot of those mini's look like someone took a shit in one hand, puked in the other, clapped them both together then rushed out to the caster to get a mini made out of what was left.


Nathan, are you on crack man! I think it was you that said maybe Kingdom Death can afford to pay sculpters more than GW can. Kingdom death is just ONE dude. Adam Poots BTW, good dude and he DID just recently hit kickstarter gold for two and a half million but regardless... GW has the rescources, they have and still do employ some fine sculptors. They just need to figure out what they want to be. I believe all the Space Hulk stuff was 3D rendered and it's awesome all the way through. It can be done, it HAS been done by the SAME GODDAMN PEOPLE they have working now. So why does every release that comes out now be such a wild crapshoot?

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Re: WOC, There back!!!!!!

Post  nathanr on Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:02 pm

I didn't so much mean that GW couldn't afford Adam Poots (although now that he's rolling in kickstarter dough they probably can't), its more that I doubt Poots would want to work for GW. He's sculpting his vision and I'd call what he's doing art. That may change with this new venture that he's started on, it looks like it is trying a bit more to appeal to the masses which is smart from a business sense but it does take some of the credibility away from his previous artsy stuff. I don't really want to say "selling out" but you know...

You are right though, GW does have fine sculptors and they are generally very good at what they do, some maybe more than others. They just need to work on the consistancy.

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Re: WOC, There back!!!!!!

Post  ScottRadom on Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:08 am

Poota doesn't sculpt, it's all shopped out to other talent.

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Re: WOC, There back!!!!!!

Post  nathanr on Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:25 am

Well, I guess that shows how much I know! Embarassed

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Re: WOC, There back!!!!!!

Post  ScottRadom on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:35 pm

With the success of Kingdom Death you get to see what one man can accomplish. He doesn't seem to have any real technical skill in the mini world in terms fo sculpting ro casting etc. He just connects the right people with more right people to accomplish his vision. I really like that concept! It also puts the magnifying glass to larger companies with all this mass amount of in house talent that work relatively close to each other that can't seem to accomplish anything as cohesive as what this single dude has done. I find it all very fascinating!

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