Power creep? What power creep?

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Power creep? What power creep?

Post  RickyDMMontoya on Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:00 pm

The LVGT results are in, and here is the breakdown for the top 10 tables in the last round of the tournament:


1. High Elves vs. Dark Elves
2. Demons vs. Demons
3. Demons vs. Demons
4. Demons vs. Demons
5. Dark Elves vs. Vampires
6. Demons vs. Demons
7. Demons vs. Empire
8. Vampires vs. Orcs and Goblins
9. Demons vs. Demons
10 Vampires vs. Vampires

For all of the scores and over all ranks:

http://gwuscommunity.com/

Out of 18 Daemon players 9 finished in the top 20 (out of 80+ players)

Out of the top ten, there are 3 Daemons, 2 Vc, 2 Dark Elves and 1 High Elves.

So 8 out of the top ten armies were from the last 4 books released.

Interesting.

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Re: Power creep? What power creep?

Post  ScottRadom on Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:15 pm

Go Orcs go!

I am definetely switching out of demons after this league. I am not all that happy with the way the trend for books is going. All I can say is that I am glad I play here with our club because I don't think I could handle playing those armies all the time.

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Re: Power creep? What power creep?

Post  nathanr on Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:17 pm

I agree, the people who play in some of those tournaments have forgotten everything good about the game. I'm glad that the league here is more about having fun than winning at all costs.

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Re: Power creep? What power creep?

Post  RickyDMMontoya on Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:24 pm

The most interesting thing to me about our league is that I found the games got more fun and laid back once we dropped the composition rules.

I don't know if that's because we lost a few players and gained a few others (or because the league ownership changed...), but it really seemed to me that about the time we gave up composition for the league, people started making better armies and playing nicer.

If I could find a happy medium between my Daemons and my Ogres, I would be set! Maybe next league I'll just bring both and flip a coin before each game.

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Re: Power creep? What power creep?

Post  ScottRadom on Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:30 pm

RickyDMMontoya wrote:The most interesting thing to me about our league is that I found the games got more fun and laid back once we dropped the composition rules.

I don't know if that's because we lost a few players and gained a few others (or because the league ownership changed...), but it really seemed to me that about the time we gave up composition for the league, people started making better armies and playing nicer.

I am still a big fan of army comp, and I do think it was a neccesary evil while we had it in play. At the height of our league we had 20 players competing for the title and between newer kids looking to "bust up" their lists and some of the older kids playing absolutely horrible armies I thought that the comp rules helped encourage some of these players to play proper warhammer. That is warhammer the way I wish it to be played! If you look back to those days you may remember the HE all wizards in chariot army, the undead summoning retarded army etc.

I agree 100% that dropping the comp has opened up the league and made it more relaxed for all. However I feel it is 100% because of the participants we currently have that accounts for the newer atmosphere. It was pretty competitve back in the day when first prize was 120 den bucks! I think the tourny cirsuit would do well to try and implement some form of composition system, though I am hopeless to help try and define one that would plug enough holes to be worthwhile.

Bottom line I am really enjoying the laid back and casual atmosphere of our league lately. Lot's of fun games!

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Re: Power creep? What power creep?

Post  squalie on Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:46 pm

My friends and I have been talking about this constantly for the last day or so. Coupled with the fact that I played against Rob's DE "Monster Mash" and simply gave up on turn 4 has showed me that things are a little different now. Absolute craziness to have a Dragon/Lord, Manticore/Hero and 2 Hydra's all in 2200 points. I simply brought a knife to a gun fight. The last thing I want to say is "I can't wait for the new Beasts list so I can compete!". I truly don't want to open the new Beasts of Chaos book and realise that people are just going to whine about it. I just want to be able to compete.

We have actually never even played with special characters, so we're a little backwards here, but we seem to enjoy just playin' a regular game of Hammer.

It wasn't long ago all you heard is complaints about Wood Elves.... Rolling Eyes

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Re: Power creep? What power creep?

Post  Carson on Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:05 am

We'll the way I see it, any type of one off game of Warhammer is goodness. However, with the new army books coming out it really reinforces the need for some type of composition format in tournaments to enable all armies to compete on a level playing field.
I for one quite enjoy the new books that are out, but looking through my rose colored glasses I don't see the obvious potentials for abuse. I think the Empire and O&G books are probably the ideal books right now for fun factor and balance. You can make very good armies but the ability to go right over the top is limited. The deamon book would be the exact opposite of this as it simply pretty much begs you to go over the top. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the potential for abuse in the new books is quite bad. One reason why I enjoy our community in Saskatoon is that our players have been keeping a nice friendly gaming atmosphere.
While the four monster Darkelf set-up might be "interesting" to face in a one off game I would be pissed if I had to fight it in a tournament. What I like about playing in a comp tournament is that If I have to face a powered up army I know that the dick head has a snowballs chance in hell of winning the tournament. Go to a no comp tournament and you can pretty much pick out the armies that could win before you even play.
Our tournament in Calgary is coming up.....makes me wonder what I'll see there. I'm sure I'll have plenty to bitch about on the way home. There are plenty of players there that think its a good time to have there opponent have the most unfun game of his life!

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Re: Power creep? What power creep?

Post  RickyDMMontoya on Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:41 am

Here is a more comprehensive digestion of the numbers. Apparently there were only 15 Daemon armies not 18.

Las Vegas GT Fantasy Results
Here are the results of the Las Vegas Fantasy GT. Plus so additional info

Total Players: 92

The Top 20

1. A. Spiers - High Elves
2. C. Addison - Dark Elves
3. T. Van Dyke - Daemons of Chaos
4. M. Lewandowski - Daemons of Chaos
5. L. Horn - Dark Elves
6. E. Vigil - Vampire Counts
7. D. Bowman - Daemons of Chaos
8. R. Felix - Vampire Counts
9. R. Baker - Wood Elves
10. B. Edwards - Bretonnians
11. B. Gallegos - Daemons of Chaos
12. E. Reppas - Daemons of Chaos
13. T. Mansouri - Daemons of Chaos
14. R. Munsul - Daemons of Chaos
15. Z. Davidson - - Daemons of Chaos
16. S. Leoni - Bretonnian
17. E. Burgess - Vampire Counts
18. B. Shocki - Tomb Kings
19. E. Boritas - Daemons of Chaos
20. T. Kugler - Vampire Counts

* Best Overall - A. Spiers - High Elves
* Best General 1st Place - C. Addison - Dark Elves
* Best General 2nd Place - T. Mansouri - Daemons of Chaos
* Best General 3rd Place - L. Horn - Dark Elves
* Best Sportsman 1st - E. Reppas - Daemons of Chaos
* Best Sportsman 2nd - B. Gallegos - Daemons of Chaos
* Best Sportsman 3rd - T. Van Dyke - Daemons of Chaos
* Best Apperance 1st - S. Goldstein - Empire
* Best Apperance 2nd- M. Lewandowski - Daemons of Chaos
* Best Apperance 3rd - R. Felix - Vampire Counts
* Player's Choice - E. Vigil - Vampire Counts
* Favorite Opponent - I. Botts - Vampire Counts


Break Down of Armies by Number and Percentage

1. Daemons of Chaos - [15] (16%)
2. Vampire Counts - [15] (16%)
3. High Elves - [13] (14%)
4. Dark Elves - [10] (11%)
5. Empire - [7] (8%)
6. Brettonnians - [6] (6.5%)
7. Wood Elves - [4] (4.5%)
8. Tomb Kings - [4] (4.5%)
9. Orc & Goblins - [4] (4.5%)
10. Ogre Kingdoms [3] (3%)
11. Lizardmen - [3] (3%)
12. Beasts of Chaos - [2] (2%)
13. Dwarves - [2] (2%)
14. Skaven - [2] (2%)
15. Warriors of Chaos - - [2] (2%)
16. Chaos Dwarfs - [0] (0%)
17. Dogs of War - [0] (0%)


Best Finish by Army and Number of Top 30 Finishes

1. Daemons of Chaos - 3rd (11)
2. Vampire Counts - 6th (7)
3. Dark Elves - 2nd (4)
4. High Elves - 1st (2)
5. Brettonnians - 10th (2)
6. Empire - 7th (1)
7. Wood Elves - 9th (1)
8. Tomb Kings - 18th (1)
9. Lizardmen - 25th (1)
10. Orc & Goblins - 32nd (0)
11. Skaven - 33rd (0)
12. Ogre Kingdoms - 60th (0)
13. Beasts of Chaos - 43rd (0)
14. Dwarves - 45th (0)
15. Warriors of Chaos - 66th (0)
16. Chaos Dwarfs - DNP (0)
17. Dogs of War - DNP (0)


Top 30 Overview

Avg Battle Score

1. Daemons of Chaos - 73.64
2. Vampire Counts - 68
3. Dark Elves - 72.75
4. High Elves - 80.5
5. Brettonnians - 70.5
6. Empire - 54
7. Wood Elves - 66
8. Tomb Kings - 57
9. Lizardmen - 57

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Re: Power creep? What power creep?

Post  squalie on Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:43 am

I have a feeling that with special characters allowed, it's going to be a "special" tournament. It's kind of ironic that I'm almost excited to get the beating of my life from special characters because we never use them! I'm just revved to play armies that I don't normally get a chance to play. Win or lose, it should still be pretty fun.

Guess we should just represent Sask as best we can!

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Re: Power creep? What power creep?

Post  Carson on Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:27 pm

Actually, most of the tournaments I've been too allow special characters....and you seldom see them. Although when you do its usually ones like teclis or.....teclis.

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Re: Power creep? What power creep?

Post  Galadros on Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:37 pm

From the data that Eric presented above what seems to be happening is more people are playing newer armies. They are having some success with them but aside from the daemons it doesn't appear to be overwhelming. For instance, the High elf tournament winner had only on eother compatriot in the top30 despite 13 players representing them. The Vampires and Dark elves were distributed with average success, as were most of the others. While it appears that several armies fared porly, keep in mind that thier volume of representation was low (Beasts, Dwarves, Skaven).

I am prepared to speculate that the newer armies have a higher representation at these tournaments because they are more potent. Yet, I also want to put forward the idea that most players that run the GT circuit are veteran guys that are steadily re-investing in new models and armies. This may be why we see the disproportionate number of newer army book forces in the mix.

One further observation about the top finishers draws me toward the sportsmanship scores. The 3 best were all Daemons! What do think about that?

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Re: Power creep? What power creep?

Post  ScottRadom on Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:43 pm

Yeah I dig on the sportsmanship scores. They were probably all Nurgle themed armies.

I hear what you're saying about newer armies being played by veterans who get back into new armies as new models are released. Since Vet's are typically better players I think you're saying this may account for the better performance? I think that is a point. But...

Are the Vet tourny players re-investing in these new armies because they are more powerful, or are the armies seen as more powerful because they're played by vet's?

I am willing to bet that unfortunately it's the power curve of the lists driving the players and not vice-versa. But as we've talked about earlier this is still the most fun I've had in the hobby for a long time.

Also it's kind of neat for me. I will admit it... I have a big head when it comes to tourny warhammer. I don't mean I expect to win every game, I really, really mean I expect to win every tournament! I have been very dissapointed with second place finishes! So what if it's egotistical, sue me. This shift (or apparent shift) in tournament army structure, both in point totals and in army comp, has kind of allowed me to "re-boot" and worry about what is truly important at one of these events. That is of course getting drunk as shit and telling old war stories. Nothing better then a full on game nerd drunk!

I am looking forward to Calgary, and fully expecting to finish out of the top ten. And honestly now, I can say I am okay with that. If some Don squishes me with 12 power dice and 4 chariots It won't make me feel like a failure!

So all in all I think everything is going to be okay. I think we may find winners of tournies being the guys who play the "internet armies" but they're still gonna have to have painted armies and be decent people about it.

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Re: Power creep? What power creep?

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